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I’ve been reading, reading, reading as much as I can on the Hawai’i/Kaua’i boards this past week (I’m currently recovering from foot surgery so am somewhat immobile for the time being) - it's been fascinating, to say the least, and a real learning experience.
I am starting to get a little concerned (and confused) though about how much income is actually needed to live comfortably on Kaua’i. Not extravagantly, but with basic expenses (food, housing, transportation) and accompanying expenses (insurance, utilities, phone, etc.) met without struggling. I know much depends on how one’s family lives and how one defines comfortable, but I’m frightened by some of the numbers I’ve seen tossed out as minimum amounts.
We have used cost-of-living comparison charts, rental prices found on Craigslist, weekly food ads, Internet research and information given on these boards to figure out how much our monthly expenses will be on Kaua’i. We spent three weeks on the island at the end of last year and are basing our gasoline and food estimates on what we spent then for nine of us (our son and family were with us) and the amount of driving we did in a not-particularly fuel-efficient car. Some of our monthly expenses won’t change from where we live now (i.e. health and dental insurance), and for other things amounts are based on quotes from the company we use now, for things such as car and rental insurance, for example.
We have estimated the following amounts for a family of four:
• Rent: Around what we are paying now (but for a smaller place) $2000 - $2200
• Food: $900-$1000/month (includes eating out approximately once a month)
• Gasoline: $300/month
• Utilities: $400/month (this assumes a house with no solar water heater and an electric stove and no A/C. This is the hardest amount to determine as we use natural gas here for hot water and cooking so have no firm number for electric-only use. Water costs on Kaua'i appear to be much less than they are here)
• Phones/Internet/Cable: About $300/month
• Car/Rental Insurance/Health & Dental Insurance: $225/month
• Clothing/Incidentals: $150 - $250/month
Is there something else I’m forgetting that we will have to pay for on Kaua’i? Are the above amounts unrealistic or too low to live comfortably? We don’t have a monthly health insurance premium (we’re retired military). There won’t be tuition expenses as our daughters will attend public school. We have no consumer debt, and we are currently healthy with no chronic illnesses or issues (except for allergies that disappear in Hawai’i). We are not bringing any pets with us.
Our (fixed) monthly post-tax retired income covers all the above expenses, and yet I have read in some posts that we should have up to $2K - $3K more per month in order for the four of us to survive on Kaua’i (or in Hawai'i in general). Why is that? We have budgeted $20K for our move, and have other savings to cover emergencies, allow for some travel including our oldest daughter’s flights to and from school on the mainland, cover private school tuition or homeschooling expenses if necessary, and take care of getting us back to the mainland if we ultimately decide Kaua’i living is not for us.
We are not minimalists, but we do live carefully and frugally. We are not waiting to change how we live until we arrive in Kaua’i; we started making lifestyle changes over two years ago and continue to downsize and adapt what we do now because we know our income will not go as far as it does here in Oregon. We know there will still be changes yet to come, but for the life of me I cannot figure out why we would need so much more each month to live on. We will not need to be saving for retirement; we will already be retired. We are not planning to buy a house there.
Are we being naïve to think we can make it on Kaua’i, or will our family of four be doomed to fail trying to live on an income of less than $85K - $100K per year?
Last edited by ChezAloha; 06-10-2013 at 10:38 PM..
We have estimated the following amounts for a family of four:
• Rent: Around what we are paying now (but for a smaller place) $2000 - $2200
• Food: $900-$1000/month (includes eating out approximately once a month)
• Gasoline: $300/month
• Utilities: $400/month (this assumes a house with no solar water heater and an electric stove and no A/C. This is the hardest amount to determine as we use natural gas here for hot water and cooking so have no firm number for electric-only use. Water costs on Kaua'i appear to be much less than they are here)
• Phones/Internet/Cable: About $300/month
• Car/Rental Insurance/Health & Dental Insurance: $225/month
• Clothing/Incidentals: $150 - $250/month
We are not minimalists
Your clothing/incidentals seem a little low - and I'd budget some expense for entertainment - especially with kids.
I live on Oahu, but we're paying $560 per month for health insurance for 2 adults. Not sure if you're bringing insurance with you? We budget $600 for food for 2, dining out we probably spend another $200-$300. I've found we eat out more here than we did on the mainland, I think because after a while there's not that much to do here variety wise.
It would've helped to add things up for us. I see roughly $4,500 in your monthly budget, so 54K per year. Your numbers look about right, some might be a little high, but I guess it's better to err on that side. For example, you can lower your food budget if you do bulk staples (rice, grains) and farmer's market veggies. Gas for my car is below 250, but we only have one car that gets 25 MPG. Look for a house with solar hot water and gas stove to save $100/month. Get a prepaid phone and cut cable to save another $150/month.
Some things will be higher. You don't mention car maintenance (may you do your own), car registration, or school supplies. I agree with whtviper1: kids clothes, slippah/shoes, swim suits, ice cream, movies, mini-golf, whatever, all add up. You say all travel will come from savings, but how long will that hold out for? That alone makes it hard to compare your budget with others, because for transplants like myself, the annual family trip (about $5K all told) to the mainland comes from yearly income. I don't see any allowance for hobbies, and there is no inter-island travel included in this budget.
It does sound like you have the basics covered, the question is by how much? If you have a 55K income, you can certainly make it, but you'll be watching your budget very closely each month. If you have 60-65, (equivalent to an 80K salary) you have some breathing room. Another question is about your savings: it's good to have savings for kids travel and in case of private school, but hopefully you have other savings for real emergencies (medical or otherwise), because you're not putting anything aside with this budget.
It would've helped to add things up for us. I see roughly $4,500 in your monthly budget, so 54K per year. Your numbers look about right, some might be a little high, but I guess it's better to err on that side. For example, you can lower your food budget if you do bulk staples (rice, grains) and farmer's market veggies. Gas for my car is below 250, but we only have one car that gets 25 MPG. Look for a house with solar hot water and gas stove to save $100/month. Get a prepaid phone and cut cable to save another $150/month.
Some things will be higher. You don't mention car maintenance (may you do your own), car registration, or school supplies. I agree with whtviper1: kids clothes, slippah/shoes, swim suits, ice cream, movies, mini-golf, whatever, all add up. You say all travel will come from savings, but how long will that hold out for? That alone makes it hard to compare your budget with others, because for transplants like myself, the annual family trip (about $5K all told) to the mainland comes from yearly income. I don't see any allowance for hobbies, and there is no inter-island travel included in this budget.
It does sound like you have the basics covered, the question is by how much? If you have a 55K income, you can certainly make it, but you'll be watching your budget very closely each month. If you have 60-65, (equivalent to an 80K salary) you have some breathing room. Another question is about your savings: it's good to have savings for kids travel and in case of private school, but hopefully you have other savings for real emergencies (medical or otherwise), because you're not putting anything aside with this budget.
First, a BIG thank you for all the replies and advice - I appreciate everyone's taking the time to answer, and it's all very much taken into consideration and appreciated.
We do have a bit more income each month than what I outlined (although not a large amount) so amounts can be tweaked somewhat. I tried to estimate on the high side, at least to start out with so that we hopefully can reduce expenses rather than having to increase everything later. I know clothing and incidentals look awfully low, but we currently spend very little on clothing (mostly use thrift and consignment, especially our daughters) so it's hard to judge what we will spend once we're there (NOTE: Would love to know about thrift stores on Kaua'i - it was one thing we completely forgot to check out while we were there). I know the girls will be wearing a uniform t-shirt to school, so that should help some to keep clothing costs down, but there still will be costs. As for incidentals, again I just have no idea what to budget as we spend very little here - we are real homebodies, for now anyway. School supplies come up once a year; we spend about $75 - $100 total now (at Walmart, the only time I go into their store here) and have no idea what we will spend there. Other than actual school, our daughters are mainly involved with school activities (i.e. sports and clubs); there is an annual fee through our current school system for the sports, but that's paid once and we're done so again I'm not sure what to budget. I'm sure new activities will come up once we're on Kaua'i, but we'll just have to wait and see what those are and how much they cost and adjust accordingly. Car registration will be a once a year thing that we can plan for and budget. We also would like to take a short annual shopping trip to Oahu with the girls but we can use the exchanges there (although they want to go to Target!) to help lower costs. Those trips will be planned around "off season" (if there is such a thing in Hawai'i) time of the year.
We already buy in bulk and make almost everything from scratch and plan to do the same on Kaua'i. The farmer's markets on Kaua'i are awesome! I only wish we had as many here, or that the prices here were as low (we pay a premium for buying at the farmer's market). We are definitely keeping our fingers crossed that we are able to rent a house with at least gas for cooking, but hopefully with solar hot water as well.
We do have a dedicated "emergency fund" that is strictly for things like medical expenses or true emergencies. We don't touch it for travel, etc.
I may look for work to supplement our income if necessary - I'm an ESL instructor - but would be content to start out just volunteering, maybe at one of the schools. If there are international students at the community college then I can at least probably pick up some tutoring and/or editing gigs.
I have learned so much from these forums - I've been reading every day (I now know lots about Maui, Oahu and the Big Island too) and usually find something tucked away that helps answer a question. For example, we were planning to ship our minivan over, but think now that we would do better to sell it and buy something that gets better gas mileage and ship that over ("Just how many road trips are we going to be taking, Mom?"). It just wouldn't have crossed our minds to do that before I started reading here.
Many, many thanks again for taking the time to respond, and for all the good advice. I honestly was worried though that we might not have enough income to make it based on some of what I had read.
Last edited by ChezAloha; 06-12-2013 at 06:46 PM..
Not to worry, there are thrift stores all over Kaua'i (Hanapepe x2, Lihue x2, Wailua, Kilauea). However, these are small organizations and they don't exchange goods with the national organizations the way they do on the mainland. So they are small and funky, and don't always have what you're looking for (though we do usually find useful and cheap stuff to buy at them). In particular, they don't have tons and tons of selection for clothes. Believe it or not, one of our destinations when we go to Oahu is the large Goodwill store there (though it has big-city prices too).
BTW, neighbor island trips are nice, but the minimum airfare between islands is now $80 each way. That's $640 for a family of 4 round-trip. Add a car, a hotel, and a few meals, and your 3-day shopping weekend costs $1,200 before you've bought or seen anything.
Even if school supplies, club fees, sports registration, car registration, oil change, etc. are all once-a-year items, they add up and increase your total from 54K to ???. But it sounds like you're on top of those things.
I'm not sure ESL is very much in demand on Kaua'i--only Oahu migh some immigrants and some ethnic enclaves where kids grow up not learning English. But you're right, I do remember a few international students in the Kaua'i Community College programs (hospitality and nursing).
Minivans are practical cars, so I wouldn't dismiss them right away. If you often go out camping as a family (or just to the beach with boards and gear), they can take everyone without feeling cramped, unlike the smaller better MPG cars. We're only a family of 3, so we get by with a small station wagon. You're retired, so you wouldn't have to worry about commuting--but you still might want to get out once a day. Between driving to both ends of the island, we drive a surprising 10-12K per year, so you have to balance comfort and MPG/cost. Though a Prius would be ideal, roomy enough inside (compared to a Civic or Scion, for example) and hybrid for MPG.
Happy to know about the Goodwill on Oahu - we will definitely be putting it on our itinerary. Goodwill prices are high here as well IMO, but bargains can still be found.
I saw that the high schools on Kaua'i offered ESL classes so thought there might be a few students although I am not sure about the elementary or middle schools. I read somewhere that there had been a bit of immigration fairly recently from the Philippines to Kaua'i, or has that stopped or slowed considerably?
There might still be a trickle of immigration from the Philippines, though not the numbers that were seen in the 50's, 60's, and maybe into the 70's (not sure exactly), for working on sugar and pineapple plantations. Likely, it is only family immigration now, where already immigrated members sponsor others in their family.
I recently just move to Kaua'i myself and like you, I did a lot of research and planning. I also got very worried after I figured my budget up and realized 'hey, we could do this!' because there are many, many naysayers online. But, the happy people aren't spending their time online whining, they're out enjoying everything this wondrous place has to offer! If your numbers add up, You can do it. Then, it's just a matter of removing yourself from those numbers. Is the Kaua'i lifestyle you want for your family? That is the question that should decide this decision for you.
I know it's a over used expression now and days, especially with the younger kids - but remember, yolo! you only live once. You can do this. Everything always works out right? you need a dollar, you find a dollar blowing in the wind. Be it God to you or some other force of nature, life always works itself out. You'll learn to skimp and save where you can and when you get out here you'll understand what you need/don't need. Money comes and goes, experiences with my family are what's important to me in life. And this experience has been the best one ever, it has brought us all so much closer together.
Please understand that most posters are not here to talk you out of moving, but to give you realistic ideas of the costs of living on the worlds most remote islands. Say your refrigerator breaks? Sears is closing. You now will have to order from a specialty store. What's the shipping cost from the mainland? Installation? Service? Who will service the warranty? Insert car...same thing. Yes, its do-able, but will cost twice/thrice as much. Many businesses do not accept credit cards. Do you have the cash?
It's great when a 20 something says ya, move to the islands its a great place to live, but when your talking kids, spouses and a mid-level standard of living, it becomes a different kettle of fish.
Yes, if you refuse to buy new clothes, quit eating meat, forgo medical/dental care or insurance, walk instead of drive, sit in the dark instead of using electricity, no worries. But really, do you want to live like that? Your kids will NEVER need braces? Never break an arm? Never want a car? College?
I think the islands are a great place to live. But I would never have relocated with children in school unless I had the means to place them in private school. (Which we did not). Better to delay that gratification than to subborn your childrens future.
Aloha and peace out>
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