City approves 938-acre, Boones Creek incentive district on first reading (Memphis: best city, sales)

[rccrain]

Originally Posted by AppalachianAngler

Correct. The population is just not there for a Top Golf.

Top Golf is a franchise model so it would just take one person or group to believe that it is. In considering the investment you also have to consider that Top Golf would immediately become the #1 social spot for young professionals within a 45 minute drive of the TRI. The rates at Top Golf are very reasonable. Between the medical community, corporations, the university, etc, I think the demographics look pretty good. I actually think it would be so popular it would be tough to get into without a reservation on the weekends. It's cheaper and more convenient than golfing and we have what 10-20 golf courses in the area.

[sprintuser2014]

CostCo and Dave & Busters have already said no to the Tri-Cities a few times. That we don't have the population or income they are looking for.

[jjbradleynyc]

Originally Posted by AppalachianAngler

Correct. The population is just not there for a Top Golf.

I don't think the demographics are there for a Whole Foods or even a Costco.

I tend to agree with you.

The tri-cities region would be amongst the last group of metro areas that a brand like Top Golf would locate to, most likely. If you look at where they are now, and what metros they are looking at, this area would be a stretch beyond their comfort zone, most likely, and just does not have the demographics and income levels they look at.

They have not opened one yet in big metros like Raleigh, Louisville, Des Moines, Memphis, or even Savannah, GA or Roanoke, VA. These all seem more logical first, than the tri-cities.

Could be surprised, but odds are there won't be a Top Golf in the tri-cities before 2030.

[rccrain]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...=1578425543020

Topgolf looking at smaller markets better 100&500k population.

[Ted Bear]

Now it turns out that the developers of the Exit 17 project paid Representative Hill to push through the legislation creating the "economic zone". The brides were disguised as campaign contributions to support Hill in his bid to become Speaker of the Tennessee Legislature.


Always follow the money.


And what a way to welcome people to the Appalachian Highlands. Nothing says fresh air and enjoyable recreational opportunities in the mountains of East Tennessee like a nice retail blotch on the otherwise pristine landscape. Before we go for a hike, lets stop in at a greasy fast food joint and maybe spend a few bucks at a nice Dollar Store.


Why not put all of this retails stuff in the floundering Johnson City Mall where Sears is gone and JC Penny is floundering? Thinking ahead to what that place will look like if it folds is more important than plowing up virgin ground just because a few developers greased the palms of a vulnerable politician.

[Serious Conversation]

Originally Posted by Ted Bear

Now it turns out that the developers of the Exit 17 project paid Representative Hill to push through the legislation creating the "economic zone". The brides were disguised as campaign contributions to support Hill in his bid to become Speaker of the Tennessee Legislature.

Always follow the money.

And what a way to welcome people to the Appalachian Highlands. Nothing says fresh air and enjoyable recreational opportunities in the mountains of East Tennessee like a nice retail blotch on the otherwise pristine landscape. Before we go for a hike, lets stop in at a greasy fast food joint and maybe spend a few bucks at a nice Dollar Store.

Why not put all of this retails stuff in the floundering Johnson City Mall where Sears is gone and JC Penny is floundering? Thinking ahead to what that place will look like if it folds is more important than plowing up virgin ground just because a few developers greased the palms of a vulnerable politician.

Steve Johnson has apparently hired Ron Ramsey to "discourage" the Boones Creek development, so it looks like there will be a clash of the local big dogs to see what happens.

I'm only for this development should it bring in something new and not already in the Tri-Cities. Shuffling existing retailers from the mall or other existing sites in Johnson City to a new state is just going to increase sprawl and there will be little to nothing that is net-new.

The thing is that the fast food joints and dollar store culture are already here and dominant. This isn't a high end area.

[rccrain]

Originally Posted by Ted Bear

Now it turns out that the developers of the Exit 17 project paid Representative Hill to push through the legislation creating the "economic zone". The brides were disguised as campaign contributions to support Hill in his bid to become Speaker of the Tennessee Legislature.


Always follow the money.


And what a way to welcome people to the Appalachian Highlands. Nothing says fresh air and enjoyable recreational opportunities in the mountains of East Tennessee like a nice retail blotch on the otherwise pristine landscape. Before we go for a hike, lets stop in at a greasy fast food joint and maybe spend a few bucks at a nice Dollar Store.


Why not put all of this retails stuff in the floundering Johnson City Mall where Sears is gone and JC Penny is floundering? Thinking ahead to what that place will look like if it folds is more important than plowing up virgin ground just because a few developers greased the palms of a vulnerable politician.

1. We need our reps in the Speaker position lest Nashville forgets that TN extends further east than Knoxville.

2. This development area is not pretty or pristine as compared to most of the greater JC area.

3. The Mall area actually seems quite healthy. All of JC is quite healthy at the moment, but the point of the BCID is to attract development that would have no interest in the Mall area to begin with. And in case you haven't checked, a lot more (better) things can fit in 938 acres than can fit in that tiny old Sears.

[jchometeam]

The JC mall right now is doing fine, but I would expect this development to substantially change that. My guess is that Dicks, JC Penney, and Belk, just in terms of the anchor stores, would consider relocating from their mall locations into this location- while meeting the requirement for a larger footprint. Dicks and JC Penney are both smallish compared to what they could be and the stores are cramped, while Belk is spread out over two sections which is awkward and they might want to consolidate somewhere that they could put everything together. If this happens, the mall dies a relatively quick death. Nobody should want that.

The only reason that the city is in favor of this, and will pass it regardless of whoever is opposed to it, is that it doesn't directly cost the city anything and it will allow them to go a few more years increasing the city budget without raising property taxes.

The problem is that the entire thing is short term thinking. Brick and mortar retail is drying, and the only way to build them now is for some government mechanism to subsidize it for a period of time. In 20-30 years, there is a real risk that we have both a mall that is vacant, a 20 year old development at Boones Creek that is vacant, and we are back to trying to do yet another redevelopment of downtown.

Meanwhile, the housing market in Johnson City has a massive supply deficit of low density, single family homes. We need to be building residential in that spot instead of retail.

[jjbradleynyc]

Originally Posted by jchometeam

The JC mall right now is doing fine, but I would expect this development to substantially change that. My guess is that Dicks, JC Penney, and Belk, just in terms of the anchor stores, would consider relocating from their mall locations into this location- while meeting the requirement for a larger footprint. Dicks and JC Penney are both smallish compared to what they could be and the stores are cramped, while Belk is spread out over two sections which is awkward and they might want to consolidate somewhere that they could put everything together. If this happens, the mall dies a relatively quick death. Nobody should want that.

This would be a disaster, and exactly the kind of development duplication the region does not need. This creates a cycle of big box, vacant storefronts after the "shiny and new" space wears out after 15, 20 years.

This Boones Creek development needs to have several "never before in the Tri-Cities" stores, restaurants or attractions. If that doesn't happen, and stores just close in one location to locate in this new development, that is not only wasteful, but helps to slowly tear down neighborhoods where the vacant stores now sit.

Hoping this development becomes a destination type of attraction, with stores like Costco, Macy's or restaurants like Firehouse Subs, Chicken Salad Chick, Chipotle, Red Robin, Bahama Breeze, etc.

If not, then a new subdivision should just be built there instead, with nice single family homes.

[Serious Conversation]

Originally Posted by jchometeam

The JC mall right now is doing fine, but I would expect this development to substantially change that. My guess is that Dicks, JC Penney, and Belk, just in terms of the anchor stores, would consider relocating from their mall locations into this location- while meeting the requirement for a larger footprint. Dicks and JC Penney are both smallish compared to what they could be and the stores are cramped, while Belk is spread out over two sections which is awkward and they might want to consolidate somewhere that they could put everything together. If this happens, the mall dies a relatively quick death. Nobody should want that.

The only reason that the city is in favor of this, and will pass it regardless of whoever is opposed to it, is that it doesn't directly cost the city anything and it will allow them to go a few more years increasing the city budget without raising property taxes.

The problem is that the entire thing is short term thinking. Brick and mortar retail is drying, and the only way to build them now is for some government mechanism to subsidize it for a period of time. In 20-30 years, there is a real risk that we have both a mall that is vacant, a 20 year old development at Boones Creek that is vacant, and we are back to trying to do yet another redevelopment of downtown.

Meanwhile, the housing market in Johnson City has a massive supply deficit of low density, single family homes. We need to be building residential in that spot instead of retail.

The JC Penney's is OK, but they are circling the drain as it is. With Belk, Kohl's, Steinmart, all the discount places like TJ Maxx, etc., how many clothiers are really needed in a town of 65,000?

I don't believe that B&M will die off completely, but there are definite headwinds. With that said, if this development was to provide something net-new (in my opinion, the area needs something higher end. We have 3 Belks but nothing a step up), I think it could stand the test of time. I get tired of having to go to Asheville or Knoxville for certain things.