Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The comparison of a community to a movie is sort of funny. When we first moved to TV it seemed like we had somehow landed in Stepford. If you've seen "The Stepford Wives" you know how all the people seemed so perfect and happy. Everyone we met here kept saying the same thing, literally in the same words, about how happy they were. "Another day in paradise" should be the official motto of TV because people say it so often. Whether we're cruising in our cart on the golf course at sunset, or stretched out on a floating lounge at a pontoon raft-up, everyone (including us) seems so happy that it has to be a happiness chip that is implanted in our brains, or we're all brainwashed like those Stepford ladies. If I've been re-programmed to love where I live, I'm okay with that!
Since we plan to rent in the area first, perhaps we should begin at TV (where there are far more rentals available anyway) and see if we can get the "happiness chip" implanted in our brains. However, I imagine that chip would only work if we stayed at TV. Probably has a self-destruct feature which activates as soon as it detects movement through a manned gate.
By the way, TheShadow, TV needs to hire you to write its ads! Love your descriptions of life at TV!
I do wish TV (or parts of TV) were gated, however.
Ha ha. I'll let Joe know that I want on that payroll. Really I'm just describing our life and I like to share that kind of happiness with others.
Regarding the gate issue, for better or worse, highway 444 is a public highway and is the shortest route between several communities (Lenoir City and Vonore, LC and Madisonville, LC and Maryville) so it gets a fair amount of traffic. It can't be gated. Sometimes I wish it could, but I've never been one to try and lock out the rest of the world. The Kahite neighborhood, which is a part of TV, is gated. It's also about 12 miles away from the rest of the village, so it makes using the amenities in the main village a bit of a chore to drive 15 minutes each way. The good thing is that crime in TV is so minimal as to make a gate pretty much unnecessary, although I do think it would make it quieter without the outside traffic. I laugh at calling it traffic, but we do get our fair share of people just using it as a route to get from point A to B, and they don't have the respect for the property values, etc.
I highly recommend renting for a few months while you make your home search here. It will give you lots of time to see the pros and cons of each community and the various neighborhoods within TV and RB. Some are closer to town, some have golf views, some have water views, etc. Key Rentals has quite a few to chose from for short or longer term rentals. Also many of the local realtors have a few rentals in their stable of properties. In addition you might want to visit other communities in the area, Wind River is right across the lake from TV, Tennessee National is also in the Loudon area. Fairfield Glade is about an hour away on the Cumberland Plateau. I'm not trying to make your choice harder, just offering opportunities you might not know about.
And just to emphasize my previous advice, at least regarding TV, don't buy too expensive of a place and don't overimprove. Unless, you never plan to sell and don't have anyone to leave it to. Buy something nice but marketable, that you can turn around and flip if you have to. Losing over $200k on a house we owned for almost ten years was a great deal for the buyer, but a huge mistake for us. And it took almost 2 years to sell. With that being said, TV has a lot to offer and is a beautiful place to live. I am thinking if we bought in RB, and we originally looked there, our house would probably still be on the market. As someone previously posted, these are mainly retirement communities and their marketability works differently than a regular community.
Lately, the Declarant has been promoting the construction of a senior living facility within the community. I do not think this is a good idea for a number of reasons. Even his partners are not buying into this idea. I've included an email that illustrates what we RB residents are confronting. The interesting thing is the strategy used by SPC, which is to appeal to residents as if we had a say in the matter. Residents have no voting rights; any that we had are no longer recognized.
May 18, 2017
Dear Property Owners of Rarity Bay:
Many of you received a communication from Michael Ayres and “Salem Pointe Capital” last week regarding an informational meeting at the Club on May 19, 2017. Please note that Salem Pointe Capital (SPC) and Salem Pointe Capital Partners are separate entities, each with differing ownership and goals. To further reflect this difference and to minimize confusion, Salem Pointe Capital Partners has changed our name to Rarity Bay Partners. The separate SPC and Rarity Bay Partners entities will continue to hold the Declarant rights together through their common ownership of Salem Pointe Holdings partnership. SPC and Michael Ayres are solely responsible for the management of the Club while Rarity Bay Partners owns almost 325 lots within your community and has a goal of increasing property values for all property owners.
Rarity Bay Partners does not support the proposed plan by Traditions Senior Living. SPC and Michael Ayres are responsible for running the Club, while the members of Rarity Bay Partners have significant experience in residential and commercial development.It appears that SPC’s judgment is clouded by the promise of future social membership dues from this facility.
Many of you have likely noticed the surveyor stakes on White Stables land at the front left entrance to Rarity Bay, which is where Traditions Senior Living proposes to construct approximately 88 units that could include small patio track homes in the future. A project of this size could have a significant impact on the utility infrastructure of Rarity Bay. The current placement of the project would require the sale of land from White Stables, thereby providing to them a significant financial windfall. Residents have continually voiced concerns regarding the lack of property maintenance by White Stables, and a windfall from this transaction may encourage the equestrian facility to continue to ignore the community standards of Rarity Bay.
All property in Rarity Bay is subject to the development standards set forth in TRDA 60000A as provided by TVA. TRDA recently engaged an independent engineer to evaluate if the current proposal is a permitted use under these standards. According to their review, an assisted living facility is not allowed under the guidelines of 60000A. This finding explains why Traditions Senior Living and SPC are now asking for your opinion after planning this development for months without even informing the CAI Board. The placement of the proposed facility would give the assisted living operator complete control of the left side of our entrance. Rarity Bay residents are subject to strict architectural guidelines and this is an attempt to bypass those guidelines. Moreover, this development places approximately 88 residential units in Rarity Bay that are not subject to the declarations and bylaws of Rarity Bay, and would therefore not be subject to any CAI dues or oversight.
To be clear, Rarity Bay Partners supports the concept of an assisted living facility; however, Rarity Bay residents deserve a location that will not reduce their property values, and an assisted living partner that works with the community and CAI Board throughout the entire process.
TennTitan, thanks for sharing this info on the push for a senior living facility on the RB grounds. The bad news just keeps on coming. The only ray of hope is that the partners of the Declarant appear to be at odds with how to move forward. Must be so many options and choices on how to inflict their will on the captive group of RB residents that there is disagreement on where to start!
Could you be so kind as to answer several lingering questions I have regarding RB?
On one of our visits, the realtor showed us a Mont Claire villa in RB. Unfortunately, it was built using synthetic "EIFS" stucco. We could not believe builders in a high end community such as RB were able to get away with using a cheap form of stucco which could have severe long term problems. We also could not believe residents bought these homes nonetheless. How widespread was the use of EIFS stucco in RB? Was such stucco used in the building of homes outside Mont Claire? In what year did the use of such stucco end?
Also, regarding the fact that certain homes are exempted from having to pay the social membership fees, are the residents in those homes barred from participating in any activities or amenities as a consequence of not electing to pay the social membership fees? If so, what is the extent of such non-participation? Is this only a matter of not being able to participate or join certain social groups or does it also mean such homeowners cannot use the pool, tennis courts, etc.? How is that process managed? Lotpoor stated in an earlier post that such exempt homeowners are getting a "free ride" on the backs of the social dues paying home AND LOT owners. Is that true?
mtnpath, Yes, as far as options on how to inflict pain upon RB residents, I must resort to the cinematic comparison of Laurence Olivier in "Marathon Man," portraying a dentist. Believing Dustin Hoffman has vital information to Olivier's safety, Olivier is challenged with choosing the appropriate dental tools that will serve his intent. "Is it safe?"
EIFS was used extensively but I do not have information that would answer your related questions. This situation may simply have arisen out of a friendship with the developer, and thus it was "recommended to new owners." Unfortunately, "high end," in RB's case should be interpreted as to what is perceived. Stucco, in either form, was a natural material to use, along with stone and a very limited amount of planked siding, in keeping with the stated intent of French-ish looking architecture, which really it's not, of course, except to those who have never been to France. I don't remember if it was an unwritten or written rule, but houses were expected to use three different exterior finishes, and brick was OUT. You won't see much brick, but somehow one couple were allowed to build a brick house, and it doesn't look "French-ish."
RB also has an unknown number of houses that have foundations built of concrete blocks, rather than poured concrete. I guess when you're paying $200 sq ft, or more, one might reduce costs by cutting corners on what is not seen.
Some of these things may have been guided by the availability of talent. Friends of ours, that actually built a French-inspired house, once commented, "No one knows how to finish off a ceiling without texture." Our house also has textured ceilings, not like popcorn ceilings, and I like them, even though our previous houses did not have textured ceilings.
Getting back to the EIFS, however, the material performs as well as standard stucco when applied correctly, AND if it is maintained as required to keep moisture from penetrating. I was a skeptic as well, but I think RB has been a good "test-market." for the material. I would have no hesitations with using it.
Regarding Club usage for non-members, one clearly is not allowed to use the the pool and tennis courts as individuals. What is not so clear is if one is part of a tennis league or other group/club with access to the amenities. I haven't heard any hard rules on these matters. I think it is just a situation that if you are with a group, no one is going to bother to police the group. If only two people are playing on a tennis court, and they are not recognized, they may be asked if they are members. If you reply "yes," and act insulted, you will probably be left alone.
A non-member can still dine at the restaurant but receives no discount. Club-sponsored events are usually limited to members. Some events are co-sponsored with the Association, so everyone is invited. Most social activities do not include the use of Club facilities, unless a large space is required.
The use of the words "exempt," and "exempted," are technical terms used to describe those who are not required to pay yearly assessments, not Club dues. This exemption applies to Builders, Declarant-related Entities, and any other person(s) deemed Exempt by the Declarant.
Lotpoor makes points that concern assessments AND Club dues. Anyone who is exempt from paying assessments is not contributing to the community. A builder or any exempt person may be holding onto a property that, had it been purchased by a non-exempt person, would be liable for payment of yearly assessments. An agreement was reached in which the first 250 lots owned by the Declarant were exempt. Yearly assessments are paid on the number of properties over the allowed 250, which now numbers almost 75.
Lotpoor's second point concerns the unreasonableness of Club members paying the same Club dues, regardless of their resident status. In the past, a lot owner either paid a reduced fee, or no fee, as an Inactive member, because they did not live in proximity to the community, and could not use the amenities. The current Declarant has forced all members to pay the same rate. Effectively, although the residents may not be getting a true "free-ride," their rates are being subsidized by those who cannot use the amenities.
Hope I've answered most of your questions.
My turn; does TV have a senior facility? What are your thoughts on this matter?
TennTitan, thanks for taking the time to address my questions.
I especially appreciate you "talking me off the cliff" on the subject of EIFS stucco. Probably read one too many "horror story" articles on the internet. Apparently EIFS stucco works best if applied to masonry (as is the case in home construction in Europe) but, if applied instead to wood or gypsum, the absence of a moisture barrier over the wood or gypsum sheathing may allow moisture to intrude at some locations (window and door edges or through cracks in the exterior or rooflines). With "hidden" water intrusion behind exterior walls comes rotting sheathing and other building components. Hopefully modern day inspections can uncover the full extent of any existing damage as well as existing defects which may cause potential future damage. Hate to have to worry about such things.
In fact, during our last visit to RB in March, it appeared that the stucco was being stripped from one of the condo buildings. Not certain whether that was because of moisture damage. Would hate to have to go through that process with a home. Looks like a very expensive undertaking!
On the issue of fees, I have one follow up at the moment. You mentioned that the Declarant, certain Declarant-related entities and builders may be "exempt" from paying ASSESSMENT fees on certain lots held by them. Do they have to pay Club dues as most other lot owners (such as lotpoor) have to pay? If not, it seems logical that the double whammy of individual lot owners having to pay both assessments and Club dues would drive their lot prices to fire sale levels and would greatly increase the opportunity of the Declarant and such other exempt entities to pick up such lots at very low prices, thereby converting such lots to "non-donor" status, i.e., shrinking the pool of those paying assessments and Club dues (and increasing the odds of future increases in those expense items due to the shrinking number of "donors to the cause").
Would be quite unfortunate if that sort of "feedback loop" is currently in motion.
I will say that it is very difficult to keep track of all of the "conflicts of interest" involved in the current setup!
mtnpath, I read a lot of those horror stories on EIFS, as well, so I inspect about every couple of months.
I will have to get back to you on the work that you saw involving a condo building. A condo resident explained the work being done, and I believe the problem was related to water intrusion, but I don't remember if it was due to poorly maintained EIFS, or a runoff/drainage problem.
In explaining the rules that govern payments, whether assessments or Club dues, the basic tenet is that properties that individuals have purchased, with the intent of possibly making it their home, someday, are now responsible for making both payments. Club members should be thought of as those intending to become members of the community.
Properties bought specifically to improve and then resell, will not require their owners to pay Club dues. I believe builders, and the like, also get a reprieve from paying assessments for a period of time, but I don't recall the length of time. The Declarant can bend these rules, of course, so I would not put money on anything I am telling you. And, yes, properties are being picked-up on the cheap, by the Declarant and builders. Some lots have been deeded over to the Association to settle their debts, only to be offered to current residents who want nothing to do with them. Most of these are interior lots that didn't sell for $99,000 and now are not selling for $5,000.
Because the Declarant owns more than the minimum, agreed-upon 250 exempt lots, any lot he now purchases will make him responsible for payment of assessments, which is better than nothing. He, of course, does not pay himself Club dues for these lots. The Declarant's strategy is to keep a certain number of these lots off the market, leading to increased property values. If that actually happens, please don't wake me up because that is one fantastical dream.
Difficult to keep track of? Yes! Conflicts of interest? More than I've already told you about! And now the Declarant has taken over the Association's Board. "It's good to be the King, I mean ... the Declarant!"
My turn; does TV have a senior facility? What are your thoughts on this matter?
Yes, TV has a very nice assisted living/memory care facility within the village. As you know, there are also businesses in the 3 business plazas in the village. The availability of these nearby businesses is one thing that makes living in TV more convenient to us than RB. The AL/MC facility is called "The Neighborhood". They are also in the planning stages, soon to break ground I believe, on a new independent living section of the same facility on an adjacent plot of land, near the dog park. I've toured the facility, for the care of my M-I-L, and was impressed with the nice level of amenities, cleanliness, and reasonable rates. It tends toward an upscale appearance and the dining area has a nice menu with multiple selections available at every meal, almost like a real restaurant. My M-I-L is currently in an AL in the nearby town of Loudon, at present it's a little cheaper than the Neighborhood, but we may consider moving her in here if/when she needs to be stepped up to MC.
Having the facility in the village is great for the retirees who have been caring for live-in family members when their care becomes too difficult. It can also happen that one half of a couple becomes too ill for a spouse to care for at home, and how comforting it would be to have them in a facility just a mile away. We also have a volunteer group in the village that is striving to make life in TV easier for the villagers of a more advanced age, who might otherwise need to move closer to their families (a fairly common occurrence since many villagers have been her for 20 years or more!). It's called "Stay in TV", and was born of an effort to assist those whose health issues might prevent them from driving to doctors appts or, performing home maintenance tasks that require a little help, but not rising to the level of calling a contractor or handyman (changing a doorknob, repairing a light switch, etc). It is operated through donations, so no set fees for tasks or rides. Just call Stay in TV and they match you with a volunteer wishing to help. There is a true volunteer spirit in TV, and a real desire for people to feel useful and helpful to their neighbors.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
