[Onlyliveonce]

Originally Posted by lvoc

Actually not very good advice...or very American. One must comply with lawful orders. But in general one should decline to comply with unlawful ones. This particular incident reeks of the police putting patriot types in their place. So we are into a situation where the police deliberately violate the law to demonstrate their ability to do so.

In Nevada the legal requirement of anyone not driving is to tell the officer your name. Nothing more. They can ask but have no basis to compel you to answer. They may however lock you up for the affront to their dignity...and they can do that and likely get away with it. The charge will be obstructing an officer of some type. It won't stick but you will still get arrested and perhaps held in a jail overnight.

And in general you should always refuse to answer police officer questions. Always request an attorney. Note though this to can get you arrested.

Practically you have to decide if you are willing to put up with the hassle to prove a point. And no you are not going to sue the cop or the police force or anybody practically. What are your damages?

Even in this rather outrageous case I would suspect collecting big will be hard...and this one is pretty outrageous.

I have 20+ years in experience Law enforcement that says otherwise. I am now a civilian and follow the advice I have lived and worked by. You would be very foolish to try to determine what is lawful request and what is not( on the street ) . You can always ask for a supervisor at any time. It is how the law is articulated by the Officer and not how you and I perceive it. Yes there is always a court of law to have your day, but I try to avoid that and go on my way after an encounter. Also when I am stopped while operating my car I do the following to avoid any problems:

Pull over to safe area of roadway so Officer has safe access to my vehicle in traffic
Turn car off
Turn interior dome light on in my car
Roll window completely down
Keep both hands on steering wheel
Inform Officer I am carrying a firearm ( might not pertain to all )
Ask Officer if I can reach into my pocket for the requested credentials
Keep it polite
Don't argue with the Officer
Keep your answers short and to the point

I am not legally required to do any of the above ( except declaring the firearm ) , but I ensure myself there will be no accidents that could harm me. All my above actions make the officer feel more comfortable and that is good for the both of us. Now, I realize each situation is unique but I have given you and this forum solid advice .

Again I speak from 20+ years of Law Enforcement STREET experience. CAN YOU SAY THE SAME ?

[Onlyliveonce]

The incident in question, why not just comply from the start and let the Police do what they need to do. Then after the incident is over ask a Supervisor for an explanation, while noting names and badge numbers. Afterwards if not satisfied then call an attorney the media ect...
Resisting the Police at the time of the incident will not make the situation better, only worse.

[ddrhazy]

Originally Posted by Onlyliveonce

The incident in question, why not just comply from the start and let the Police do what they need to do. Then after the incident is over ask a Supervisor for an explanation, while noting names and badge numbers. Afterwards if not satisfied then call an attorney the media ect...
Resisting the Police at the time of the incident will not make the situation better, only worse.

Because you have a 4th amendment right from unreasonable search and seizure. If you don't understand that, then please don't give advice to others.

[Onlyliveonce]

Originally Posted by ddrhazy

Because you have a 4th amendment right from unreasonable search and seizure. If you don't understand that, then please don't give advice to others.

You obviously either did not read my post or have reading comprehension issues. I believe this is a third amendment issue not a fourth, as I would need to read the Court complaint . Either way I did not say to give up your rights, but rather keep you or someone out of jail and fight the fight on YOUR terms and not from a jail cell. Again let the Police to what they do and then you act after the incident is over. We are not talking theory, but real life street situations.

[aggrofish]

Originally Posted by ddrhazy

I dunno, you want to maybe be a bit more of a jerk when responding to me?

Lol not trying to be just saying in context it makes sense. I wasn't comparing the two, I was just stating that the police force in various places are different because it seemed as though the person I was quoting assumed I believed all cops were evil.

[lvoc]

Originally Posted by Onlyliveonce

I have 20+ years in experience Law enforcement that says otherwise. I am now a civilian and follow the advice I have lived and worked by. You would be very foolish to try to determine what is lawful request and what is not( on the street ) . You can always ask for a supervisor at any time. It is how the law is articulated by the Officer and not how you and I perceive it. Yes there is always a court of law to have your day, but I try to avoid that and go on my way after an encounter. Also when I am stopped while operating my car I do the following to avoid any problems:

Pull over to safe area of roadway so Officer has safe access to my vehicle in traffic
Turn car off
Turn interior dome light on in my car
Roll window completely down
Keep both hands on steering wheel
Inform Officer I am carrying a firearm ( might not pertain to all )
Ask Officer if I can reach into my pocket for the requested credentials
Keep it polite
Don't argue with the Officer
Keep your answers short and to the point

I am not legally required to do any of the above ( except declaring the firearm ) , but I ensure myself there will be no accidents that could harm me. All my above actions make the officer feel more comfortable and that is good for the both of us. Now, I realize each situation is unique but I have given you and this forum solid advice .

Again I speak from 20+ years of Law Enforcement STREET experience. CAN YOU SAY THE SAME ?

That just says you have eaten the forbidden fruit. You no longer understand how the system is supposed to work. You have been co-opted.

Where did driving come from? The odd rules about driving provide police with benefits far past rational.

There was no driving in the case in point...and I carefully crafted my response to keep driving out of it. But you immediately reintroduced it. Why? Because police use the limited exceptions that deal with driving to create scenarios that are otherwise impossible.

Watch the video of the guy on his lawn with the camera. Explain what that cop thought he was doing.

Does the cop have a right to see ID? If he asks to see yours should you provide it? But if you, as is your right, refuse to ID does he have a right to arrest you? Note I agree he likely will...but that does not make it right...merely force for its own sake.

I think to some degree we need to enforce the rules of engagement with the state. Even if the state operators play dirty. If you ignore it and simply observe they are good guys they get there way.

The guys who put the jews in the gas chambers were all good citizens...

[aggrofish]

Originally Posted by Onlyliveonce

You obviously either did not read my post or have reading comprehension issues. I believe this is a third amendment issue not a fourth, as I would need to read the Court complaint . Either way I did not say to give up your rights, but rather keep you or someone out of jail and fight the fight on YOUR terms and not from a jail cell. Again let the Police to what they do and then you act after the incident is over. We are not talking theory, but real life street situations.

That's crazy talk my friend. It sounds like your saying waive your rights because you should do whatever the police ask not matter how unreasonable.

I believe that's what the police want you to do and it's probably the safest thing to do as to not get shot or arrested, but make no mistake it is a violation of your rights.

[Onlyliveonce]

Originally Posted by lvoc

That just says you have eaten the forbidden fruit. You no longer understand how the system is supposed to work. You have been co-opted.

Where did driving come from? The odd rules about driving provide police with benefits far past rational.

There was no driving in the case in point...and I carefully crafted my response to keep driving out of it. But you immediately reintroduced it. Why? Because police use the limited exceptions that deal with driving to create scenarios that are otherwise impossible.

Watch the video of the guy on his lawn with the camera. Explain what that cop thought he was doing.

Does the cop have a right to see ID? If he asks to see yours should you provide it? But if you, as is your right, refuse to ID does he have a right to arrest you? Note I agree he likely will...but that does not make it right...merely force for its own sake.

I think to some degree we need to enforce the rules of engagement with the state. Even if the state operators play dirty. If you ignore it and simply observe they are good guys they get there way.

The guys who put the jews in the gas chambers were all good citizens...

I spoke about driving as this is the most common encounter with Police. I gave the advise to help and possibly prevent a tragic accident like the one that happened at COSTCO. It is a skill to prevent any harm to occur do to an accident. If people were to follow your advice they very well could end up in a holding cell, hospital or morgue. Welcome to REALITY.

Talk about off topic. How did the Jews and the gas chamber come up ?

I realize you are a know it all on these forums, but you are out of your expertise zone here.

[Onlyliveonce]

Originally Posted by aggrofish

That's crazy talk my friend. It sounds like your saying waive your rights because you should do whatever the police ask not matter how unreasonable.

I believe that's what the police want you to do and it's probably the safest thing to do as to not get shot or arrested, but make no mistake it is a violation of your rights.

No crazy talk. Don't give the Police a reason to escalate the situation. If you or anyone feel your rights have been violated then get an attorney and file so you have your day in court. My advice is not to get thrown in a jail cell, but rather engage on your terms from the comfort of your attorneys office. If we are talking strictly theory then I agree with you. Street encounters have real consequences including death and I'm trying to keep the situation stable.

[ddrhazy]

Originally Posted by Onlyliveonce

You obviously either did not read my post or have reading comprehension issues. I believe this is a third amendment issue not a fourth, as I would need to read the Court complaint . Either way I did not say to give up your rights, but rather keep you or someone out of jail and fight the fight on YOUR terms and not from a jail cell. Again let the Police to what they do and then you act after the incident is over. We are not talking theory, but real life street situations.

I read the suit and it is not just a 3rd amendment suit. I believe they are suing under violations of but not limited to 3rd, 4th and 14th amendment.