[NaturalBowler]

Apparently, some residents and renters at Panorama Towers are in need of a forum with honest and ethical moderators. That's what this thread is about. Welcome, neighbors!

[logline]

Not a neighbor, but curious: do you like living there? What are your HOA fees?

[NaturalBowler]

Dues are around $0.63/sqf. Typical 2BR there is around 1400 sqf, but there are many larger units. So, dues can run nearly $1000 a month. HOA burns money like drunken sailors on the Strip. Some 660 units total I think. Over half rental units, and renters live here full time, so the facilities are stressed. Given dues of $1000 a month, and rents around $2000 a month for a typical unit, one wonders if "investors" aren't punch drunk. The place is about lifestyle and convenience. Lot of expat money at Panorama. Its known for it's party atmosphere, poker players, and other independent contractors, as it were. But really, the partiers hit the strip, get back at dawn, and sleep all day, to it's rather quiet. There are actually parents and children living at PT. Some actually go to school. Kids are more likely to be found playing on the pool decks in the AM than anyone else.

Part time living at PT is amusing. Full timers aren't as amused. I'm more amused than not. Many come to Vegas for amusement, and there is no shortage of amusement at Panorama Towers. Can't speak for renters or employees, but there is a high turnover in those categories.

Interested in seeing if this forum will be an outlet for some very frustrated renters and others who may communicate in a group with more impartial moderators. Change always prompts conflict and displeasure for those enthralled by drama. Panorama Towers is a very diverse community, but highly fluctional. Those looking for a "sense of community" are going to be disappointed. Those looking for convenience and a reasonable set of amenities at an outrageously high price will be amused. Some suggest the eye candy at Panorama Towers is top tier. I couldn't tell ya about that. There are some bitter folks lurking in the trollways who just plain hate people (HOA meddlers), but most people are nice if you are nice to them. Oh, any resident can tell some amazing stories. That's part of the amusement factor.

Definitely a value proposition for renters without cars who work on the strip. The limo service is clutch, and the gyms are top quality. Place is dog friendly, and there may be more dogs living at PT than people. Probably a ton of cats, but they aren't paraded around on leashes.

HOA not keen on AirBNB there, but the limo service, morning coffee, lack of $32 a night "resort fees", no room tax and all the rest does attract those who wish to capitalize on that sort of thing. Certain security loopholes allow easy AirBNB management. Better than staying at the Palms, MGM Sig or Trump IMO. Not a condotel, so there isn't a real obvious check in/check out going on. Not a heck of a lot of nightly rental going on there.

[BBMW]

Panorama was pushed for it's near strip convenience. I think a lot of the promotion hinted that is was something of a strip property. But it's in the largely industrial area just west of the 215. Other than driving though it, is there any interaction with the local area? Are people using this as a walkable residence from the strip (because it's a long, ugly walk over the freeway), or, like the rest of Vegas, does everyone just drive everywhere?

[logline]

Originally Posted by NaturalBowler

So, dues can run nearly $1000 a month.... Its known for it's party atmosphere, poker players, and other independent contractors, as it were... Kids are more likely to be found playing on the pool decks in the AM than anyone else.

Yep, this pretty much sounds like I thought it was like. Sounds like a nightmare to me. I'd never live there.

Do a search on this thread for the other Panorama Towers discussion. I posted an interesting video there.

[NaturalBowler]

Originally Posted by BBMW

Panorama was pushed for it's near strip convenience. I think a lot of the promotion hinted that is was something of a strip property. But it's in the largely industrial area just west of the 215. Other than driving though it, is there any interaction with the local area? Are people using this as a walkable residence from the strip (because it's a long, ugly walk over the freeway), or, like the rest of Vegas, does everyone just drive everywhere?

The walk is not long and ugly. You enter City Center at a beautiful Zen garden and dog park for the Vdara. Few know about it. It is less stressful than walking a gated suburban area in Summerlin under HOA control. The Panorama is situated directly across from City Center, and the curves of Aria, and Vdara capture the view from the Valet and entrance. At night, you take a quiet walk, often with other residents at the Panorama and Martin toward the beautiful lights of City Center.

Let's contrast with a little walk outside the Allure, or perhaps jog over at Turnberry Towers - oh there are people out there all right. You'd pray for empty light industrial and business with no panhandlers, no needle trackers, no hookers walking the street, no bangers trolling in their cars, no dealers or bums asking for a nickel bag and so on. Have you taken a walk outside Tunberry Place? How's the walk at the Sky? Are you salivating over the walk outside at the Trump to, perhaps the Wynn or Palazzo? That's longer, and more bleak. Enjoying the walk from MGM Signature to the strip? That's rather "exciting", eh?

Most people take the "free limo service" to and from the strip. They run two units on the weekends. To and from the airport as well. Good range of service hours. Amazing for full time renters working on the strip, and the party kids love that nonsense.

If you want a place in the desert, get one. Like a place in the mountains? Get one. Near the ocean? Get one. Those are more often than not, vacation or second homes. People choose bleak, cookie cutter, cul de sac buried , ticky tacky homes for raising their kids and for bitching at each other about the lawns or halloween decorations. The Panorama Towers, Martin, Turnberry's and others are more vacation homes.

Do you really want to live full time at the Veer? It has a HORRIBLE sub grade "valet" parking area, which is bottlenecked and too small to handle the volume. You end up parking at Aria. The lobby seems sleek, but its not at all that comfy. The Leeds construction has led the the famous "hum" between the buildings when the winds come. It is amazing to listen to. Sit between the buildings one day. I hear it drives residents crazy. Tiny gyms, but great view. Surrounded by partiers and drunks EVERY DAY OF THE YEAR? You got it! Want to get pinned in when the strip is closed? No problem! Want to go shopping? OH, you have do drive your car out on the strip? Better to backtrack on Harmon to the PANORAMA to get out, no? No limo service, so you'll have to WALK, HIRE A CAB, or brave the drunks in your car. The units at the Veer are awkward and small due to the tubes needed to support the leaning buildings. No decks like the Panorama. Martin has "Juliet" windows which are a JOKE. Some strip facing and W. facing end units have decks. You can't open a window at Veer.

Yeah, that "bleak industrial area" is looking rather calm and safe in the relative sense, eh? There will be two hotels build at the old Range 702, so there will be some increase in traffic. Oh, have you been to the Metropolis? Do we need to pick that apart? Been at their pool? Been in the "gyms"? Seem anyone living there?

[NaturalBowler]

Originally Posted by logline

Yep, this pretty much sounds like I thought it was like. Sounds like a nightmare to me. I'd never live there.

Do a search on this thread for the other Panorama Towers discussion. I posted an interesting video there.

Don't see why it's a nightmare. Depends on your state of mind. Some of the HOA Nazi's find it to be a nightmare, because they just don't like people. People have a variety of tastes, political and religious opinions, educations, IQ's, and abilities. Put them in tight quarters, and some of the Utopians believe that their neighbors ought to become as they, and join a cult, run by the Utopians - but their version of Utopia will differ from yours. That is a constant for all HOA run communities. Meddlers get involved with the HOA, and they find a way to meddle. It is getting tough to find new construction or anything built after the late 80's out west that's not in an HOA. Property values quickly reflect the strength of the HOA and those who associate with it for power.

City type high rises are not the place to make lifelong friends, hold hands, watch your children grow up together, and have a Welcome Wagon. Transient renters and workers find high rise living to be exceedingly convenient. You have spas, full feature gyms, limo, valet, outdoor pools, movie rooms and more - all within a short elevator ride and walk. The quality of those features meet or exceed the higher rated hotels on the strip. The economic downturn wasn't kind to the high rise communities along or within the LV Strip. The "well heeled" owners didn't come in droves, and in many cases, investors came in to turn high rises into apartments. You see the same in the Vegas suburbs now. For a renter, the level of amenities is jaw dropping. There renters paying under $2000 a month for top floor strip or west view condos in that complex. The units might have sold for over a million dollars apiece. In general, $2000 gets you something decent in this market, but calculate the mortgage you'd get from it. Again, $1000 or more goes to HOA dues, so a renter is paying "$1000" a month in rent, plus the HOA "fees" on top. That's a painful proposition for "investors" who got in too early.

Yep, the person who pays $2000 a month in rent, sharing a condo with one or several roommates, is not going to be the person who paid several hundred thousand dollars to millions of dollars - likely in cash - to purchase the same condo and then pay over $1000 a month in HOA dues for part time living. The Strip attracts people who prefer a yard long drink purchased Near Bally's, and the person who is wearing $100K in jewelry, shopping the designer stores, and staying in luxury suites. The crash brought those people together at the various high rises along the Strip.

Hang out at the Veer - its a college dorm. Yep, owners subsidize some excessive lifestyles, and renters live full time in rental units. Renters are VERY hard on property and services. That doesn't seem like a "nightmare" for a renter at all. A legit apartment complex could NEVER afford to offer these levels of amenities. The well-heeled and "investors" pay for the lifestyle of the much less affluent.

Now, if the services wane, or the physical plant shows signs of wear, or if certain systems don't work, a renter isn't going to be very happy. A renter is full time. A vacation owner is part time.

Nah, no nightmare.

[SportyandMisty]

The one thing I'm amazed at is the collection of cars in the Panorama parking structure -- custom Rolls Royces (like the one with the license plate HIT MAN), convertible Bentleys, Ferraris, Aston-Martins, Lamborghinis, R8s and other exotic cars.

[Bart9399]

Originally Posted by NaturalBowler

Yeah, that "bleak industrial area" is looking rather calm and safe in the relative sense, eh? There will be two hotels build at the old Range 702, so there will be some increase in traffic. ?

I see that Dean Martin Drive has been developing. The bar / restaurant "Blind Pig" has been a nice edition.

What are the plans for the hotel at the Range 702? This will hopefully bring some nice amenities to the area.


guy

[NaturalBowler]

BP is going to change themes to a sports bar according to rumor. Great restaurant, and great employees.