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If you don't wish to converse with me, don't. No one is twisting your arm to converse with me, just like no one twisted your arm to take out a mortgage. Let's be clear; the bank made you a perfectly fine loan. Presumably, it was at a decent rate, or you wouldn't have accepted the terms. The loan provided the funds to procure your condo. The loan itself was fine. Your walking away from it is what makes it a bad loan. As for paying for your mistake, who else should pay? Me? The bank that offered you the loan? Taxpayers? What a novel concept to be accountable for your own mistakes instead of trying to make someone else pay for them.
You posted the following just 16 days ago -Now, 16 days later you can rent for 20% less and you're leaving. Whatever. More importantly, you received your canned speech to bilk the system less than 30 minutes after posting the above. His advice to bilk the system is independent of whether your mortgage is less or more than equivalent rent. The circumstances don't matter because the goal is to bilk the system for all its worth.
BTW, you're missing the point of the "10-15 years down the road" issue. You're choosing to walk away from your mortgage because of the prospects of being foreclosed 10-15 years from now, not any immediate financial duress. You are what the media have coined the "strategic defaulter". You have the ability to pay your mortgage but you're making the conscious choice not to. Contrast that against the tens of thousands of people who have no other alternative but default. I think I've been pretty clear what I have a problem with - more than the choice to walk away, is then taking advantage of the system to live rent free for as long as possible, and asking for money to hand the keys over. You say that's not your intent? Good for you.
you know tony, i dont agree with you alot, but man this time you hit it on the head... this is the problem in this country, too many people thinking about 10 yrs from now so they should walk.... she made the deal with the bank and she should follow through... as for the condos selling for less, shes probably looking at the listing prices and not the actual selling price. heck where my rental is, a similar house was listed for 69k (i paid 200+ for mine) but sold for 135.. its just a bidding war......
well, i hope she walks and in 5 years, her condo is worth 200k! anyway nice to agree once...
More garbage and another misused term. You simply don't understand what a strategic defaulter is. Get a little educaton before you use terms.
Don't waste your breath Gail. Tony is a true believer. Only they know where truth lies.
As if you coined the term. Stick with your real expertise - advising others on how to bilk the system.
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Strategic defaulters may know that their credit scores will be depressed by their mortgage abandonment, Tantia said, but they appear to look at it as a business decision: "Well, I'm $200,000 in the hole on my house, and yes, I'll damage my credit," he said of defaulters. But they see it as the most practical solution under the circumstances.
Yes, I made a mistake. Yes, I was naive. But was I mislead on my way to the mistake? I believe I was. I was mislead by the condo sales office, I wasmislead by SOMEBODY (my realtor or the selling realtor) when before made my offer I was told there were already "several" offers on the place, which seemed to suddenly disappear at the end of negotations. I also believe that those who had the greatest insight into what was going to happen (the banks) are the ones who will take the biggest "loss" But, if you look at the loss as a percentage of worth, and the net effect on well-being, then I am still the biggest loser here. Yes, I'm taking what feels like a creepy way to get out of this, but no, I'm not willing to sacrifice my well being for what amounts to the rest of my life in order to do my small part to a) keep the long-suffering bank industry afloat; or b) satisfy the moral leanings of my critics. My object is not to get a free ride. My object is just to get out from under this mess.
Mistakes have obviously been made in the past (after all...you moved to LV from Michigan!) Mistakes are currently still being made. Mistakes will continue to be made in the future.
You just have this dark cloud of 'bad luck' (certainly, not poor judgement!) hanging over your head. Better run, Prince...those dark clouds are about to break open, and you'll get drenched by 'Purple Rain!'
I don't understand GailMI's argument. When she purchased the condo, she was not worried about 10-15 years from now. Any news report would have told her that the housing market was not yet stable and she (should have been) self informed that it was possible prices could still go down. Did she even negotiate the price of the condo at the time of purchase, perhaps coming in lower than list? Or did she go in higher than list? And if you didn't feel comfortable with your realtor, or thought perhaps she was leading you in the wrong direction, why didn't you change your realtor before purchasing the condo?
Anyway, what confuses me is why GailMI's worried about 10-15 years in the future NOW, rather than be worried about the 10-15 years in the future at the time of purchase. A LOT can happen in 10-15 years, and it's possible the condo prices can go back up. So why walk away and ruin your credit today, and deal with the ramifications of ruining your credit for the next several years?
And my other question is, GailMI says sh'es not going to be able to hold her head above water and is going to be severly upside down in 10-15 years, but I'm a little unsure of why that is. No one has a crystal ball here and can say what that condo will be worth in 10-15 years, and it just seems premature to walk away now. If you can afford the mortgage, and can afford living there right now, why not wait a year or even six months before you decide to go this route?
Anyway, I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just trying to understand GailMI's reasoning.
I don't understand GailMI's argument. When she purchased the condo, she was not worried about 10-15 years from now. Any news report would have told her that the housing market was not yet stable and she (should have been) self informed that it was possible prices could still go down. Did she even negotiate the price of the condo at the time of purchase, perhaps coming in lower than list? Or did she go in higher than list? And if you didn't feel comfortable with your realtor, or thought perhaps she was leading you in the wrong direction, why didn't you change your realtor before purchasing the condo?
Anyway, what confuses me is why GailMI's worried about 10-15 years in the future NOW, rather than be worried about the 10-15 years in the future at the time of purchase. A LOT can happen in 10-15 years, and it's possible the condo prices can go back up. So why walk away and ruin your credit today, and deal with the ramifications of ruining your credit for the next several years?
And my other question is, GailMI says sh'es not going to be able to hold her head above water and is going to be severly upside down in 10-15 years, but I'm a little unsure of why that is. No one has a crystal ball here and can say what that condo will be worth in 10-15 years, and it just seems premature to walk away now. If you can afford the mortgage, and can afford living there right now, why not wait a year or even six months before you decide to go this route?
Anyway, I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just trying to understand GailMI's reasoning.
I confess. I was stupid, I was naive, I trusted the wrong people, I had bad judgement, I was wrong wrong wrong wrong. OK? Actually, I asked for advice from a lot of people. Nobody really said "NO, DON'T buy NOW." In fact, people were commonly saying, "now's a great time to buy." Obviously it was the WRONG people that I asked. I get that. I'm guilty. I was wrong. I should have known better. I should have contacted a financial advisor. I WAS DEAD WRONG. Bad judgement. I thought I was making a reasonable choice, but I WAS NOT. I'm confessing to whatever in the h*ll it is you want me to confess to. That part is over. I can't go back in time. I have about 15-20 years left of life and now I have to to try to fix my horrible mistake. I can't sell my condo. In times past, homeowners always had that option. That is no longer an option. People who have gone severely upside down are prisoners to their homes.
Believe it or not, I DID think about 10 years down the road, and when I looked at the numbers, I truly believed that I would at least be at break even after 10 years of payments and I would have the option of moving if I needed to. Again, I was wrong, I was stupid, I was mistaken, I didn't read the financial section, etc. etc. etc. I did not predict that the value of the condo would go down by another 50-60% in one year. (And they ARE selling for 50-60% less than what I owe right now.) It had already dropped by 40%. But now I AM POSITIVE that it will not regain that much value in 10-15 years. There is basically no HOA, there is no money to maintain the property, it is going downhill before my eyes. How can I be sure I will still be upside down in 10-15 years? It IS OBVIOUS. Much more obvious than the previous years' decline was. At that time the place still looked like a new condo development. The builder had not walked away. The builder was still maintaining it. Now it is is sliding downhill and anybody with eyes can see that. HOA fees (for those like myself who are paying, and it is a very small minority) have already gone up and will have to continue to do so. As vandalism goes up, special assessments are right around the corner. There is talk of shutting down the pool. Besides which, there is just no way that ANY condo in the Las Vegas area will appreciate by 50% in 10-15 years, and definitely not this one. Why would I even hold on to that as a possibility? You're telling me to be sensible, and yet I should think "well maybe it will double in value in the next 10 years?"
You say, wait a year. Well, I don't really have the luxury of time. If I were younger, I would agree with you. I need peace of mind now.
Again, I'm not arguing so much for myself. I don't need the approval of anybody and especially not of an internet discussion board. It's just my nature to try hard to explain my reasoning and the reasoning of others in this situation. It seems to me that I explain it rationally, I admit my mistake, I explain my reasoning clearly, and then I get the response, that I'm not making sense. It's just knee-jerk for me to try again to explain.
And I will say right now, at the beginning of this conversation I was referring to my "bad luck." I see now through further study, that it was bad judgment and bad timing, not just bad luck. I took bad advice and I wasn't well-enough informed. I admit to that. The only question now is how severely should I and others like me be punished for our bad judgment and ignorance of the complex nature of this particular economic crash? If our homes are our prisons is it life without parole? Some people say yes. I get that attitude I really do.
But what I don't get is when somebody says they "don't understand my reasoning." My reasoning seems clear and I've tried to express it clearly.
What is the Dollar amount you will save each month by being a renter, rather than a mortgagee (owner)? How much is your car payment? Cell phone & Cable?
GailMI - I am sorry you are going through this situation, and I apologize for my not understanding despite your best attempt at explaining yourself previously.
I do however stand by my suggestion at attempting to make things work for another six months to a year. You said it yourself - you only have 15 years to live! And although I think you are being a bit dramatic about that, do you really want to spend the next 15 years repairing your credit?
Therein lies the reason behind myself and others on this board who suggest you keep your condo. You made an agreement - and regardless if you were misinformed, mislead, etc., you made a commitment to pay for your home. You can still AFFORD your home. You are in a better position than a lot of other people out there.
If you were my mother, I would tell you not to make a mistake that you can't afford to make. But then again, if you were my mother, you would have damaged your credit so severely already that you wouldn't have been able to buy the condo in the first place.. Which is why I suggest you hold out a little bit longer. Because I've personally seen what bad credit has done to someone. Do you really think it's a better solution to go into bankruptcy at 60?
Heh. Well at least I made myself understood. As for the dramatic nature of my 15-20 years comment, that's what my daughter says. But I'm only going according to average life expectancy. lol
The reason I don't want to wait has to do with my state of mind. I'm a nervous wreck and I figure now is the time to put my head down and just forge ahead. I understand the hit to my credit, but the last thing I need right now is credit.
And if I were your mother, perhaps I would have asked for your advice and I wouldn't be in this situation to begin with! I wish just ONE person had said to me, "I don't think this is a good time to buy...." One person would have been enough.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dashboardangel
GailMI - I am sorry you are going through this situation, and I apologize for my not understanding despite your best attempt at explaining yourself previously.
I do however stand by my suggestion at attempting to make things work for another six months to a year. You said it yourself - you only have 15 years to live! And although I think you are being a bit dramatic about that, do you really want to spend the next 15 years repairing your credit?
Therein lies the reason behind myself and others on this board who suggest you keep your condo. You made an agreement - and regardless if you were misinformed, mislead, etc., you made a commitment to pay for your home. You can still AFFORD your home. You are in a better position than a lot of other people out there.
If you were my mother, I would tell you not to make a mistake that you can't afford to make. But then again, if you were my mother, you would have damaged your credit so severely already that you wouldn't have been able to buy the condo in the first place.. Which is why I suggest you hold out a little bit longer. Because I've personally seen what bad credit has done to someone. Do you really think it's a better solution to go into bankruptcy at 60?
The reason I don't want to wait has to do with my state of mind. I'm a nervous wreck and I figure now is the time to put my head down and just forge ahead. I understand the hit to my credit, but the last thing I need right now is credit.
Just curious, you mention that you don't need credit.. Is that because you already have credit cards??
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As for the dramatic nature of my 15-20 years comment, that's what my daughter says. But I'm only going according to average life expectancy. lol
