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What do you think? Free speech and nothing to be concerned about, or something that should be considered threatening and nipped in the bud?
My husband is from England, used to work in London, and now lives in the U.S. with me, and he's been hearing growing concerns from his family. Lots of political correctness going on, while more radicals coming into the country.
Do people fear speaking out because of not wanting to hurt feelings, or because there is genuine fear? Common sense replaced with a perpetual state of confusion? A sort of Stockholm syndrome?
I know not every Muslim in London is a radical, and many are against what ISIS is doing, but are radicals being confronted, or does the above article indicate what many fear... that British Mettle is no more?
What would you say to someone who just handed you a flier that supports radical Islam? Would you engage?
Say thanks for the flier and move on?
Myself I think I might engage, not aggressively, but to ask them questions for clarification purposes, like "What do you think of ISIS killing those who wont convert?" "Would you like to see Sharia law replace Britain's current system?". etc. I would be genuinely curious.
Thanks... I know also this seems to be a growing concern in much of Europe as well.
What do you think? Free speech and nothing to be concerned about, or something that should be considered threatening and nipped in the bud?
It's free speech.
Whether there is anything to be concerned about is not relevant to whether it's considered free speech or not. If speech that was considered threatening was not protected by freedom of speech, then there likely would be no real debate about any politically controversial topic, for instance should be everyone have the right to vote (which was once a very politically controversial topic, both in the UK and the US).
If it is nipped in the bud, then you have just destroyed freedom of speech with a trite cliche. It provides a mechanism for people to suppress speech they disagree with for whatever reason, and is no way to further personal and political freedoms.
If it all blows up, well that's the price you pay for political freedom, it's better than the alternative.
Of course it's free speech. We have Nazi's over here that pass out fliers as well. But they are also being watched. Groups that have a track record of violence are taken seriously, and while you can't stop them from passing out fliers, people should and do confront them.
Often when Nazi's are out and about practicing their "free speech", there are often counter protests. People practice their free speech and tell them they're wrong!!
Do they do this in England? If there was a group of ISIS supporters yelling about taking over London and everyone who isn't Muslim is an infidel, would there be a group of people yelling back at them that they are wrong? I hope so!
We wont have any speech to fight back with soon... too much is given in their favour in a country that has allowed them in....treated them well and allowed them the freedom they dont have in their own country.
Of course it's free speech. We have Nazi's over here that pass out fliers as well. But they are also being watched. Groups that have a track record of violence are taken seriously, and while you can't stop them from passing out fliers, people should and do confront them.
Often when Nazi's are out and about practicing their "free speech", there are often counter protests. People practice their free speech and tell them they're wrong!!
There always used to be, when the National Front went on a tear, the Anti-Nazi League used to go and generally cause mayhem, that could lead to some property damage, severe beatings and the occasional death.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Podo944
Do they do this in England? If there was a group of ISIS supporters yelling about taking over London and everyone who isn't Muslim is an infidel, would there be a group of people yelling back at them that they are wrong? I hope so!
Why? Would you yell back at someone screaming how Aliens are going to come down from the skies on surf boards (like the Silver Surfer) rape our chickens, eat our carrots and level our cities? It's about as plausible. The silent majority of the UK is generally silent on things which are patently absurd, your suggestion being one of them. To counter protest implies that the people who are protesting or supporting some claim has some small chance of coming to pass, to respond is to admit that you fear they have that chance. When there is no chance why give oxygen to their attempted fire?
Estimates place 1% of all Muslims are extremists, 95% of the UK is non-Islamic, therefore 99.95% of the UK are non-extremist muslims/non-muslims, how far do you think any kind of action is going to go? That's about 31,500 people, the UK has 390,000 self described Jedi Knights per the 2001 census by way of comparison. More seriously the MoD estimates 50k people were involved with Irish Separatists in the Northern Ireland troubles (either by direct action or supporting direct action), is Northern Ireland still part of the UK? That being so, how far will 31,500 people get (who are probably being surveilled up the whazzoo, the US ain't got nothing on UK surveillance)?
Dizz, there are 1.6B people in the world who self identify as Muslim. 1% is 16M.
If we add together all of the "Jihadis" of all types (al-Nusra, militant wing of Hezbollah, militant wing of Hamas, ISIS, al-Quaeda, Haqqani Network, etc. etc.) and double their official estimated memberships (or self reported numbers which are known to be grossly inflated anyway) it would likely amount to less than 1 Million.
That leaves a grand total of 15 Million who are not jihadi's just extremists (and extremist is a relative term).
When you consider the airtime that those under 1 Million Jihadi Muslims get from their antics, is it any wonder that the more extreme Muslims who aren't out killing people on Jihad get a much larger proportion of airtime than they probably warrant? This leads to a perception of it being a bigger issue than it is. The media has been playing the Muslim Bogeyman tune for a decade, since 9/11/2001, and it's made people everywhere a little bit irrational and hypersensitive.
Here's a question, what do you think would happen in any major city if some Islamic sect chose to block access to all the pubs in any city center on a Friday night? Do you think the people who are going there are just going to go home, or do you think that perhaps you might see a bunch of Muslims getting their backsides handed to them from the people going for a tasty beverage or two (where in my hometown that in itself often ends with some entirely random fisticuffs for minor incidents like looking at someone, someones girlfriend, or spilling their pint, and following it up with an Indian takeaway)? If it's the former, then the UK has intrinsically changed far more that I perceive from the US and through friends since I left close to 15 years ago, if the latter then what makes you think that they're going to be able to achieve any change of great importance?
The Link you provided isn't a warning, its a specific plan that's laid out to prevent the types of abuse of school syllabi that occurred in Birmingham, by removing financing of various schools that are publicly funded if they violate a set of restrictions. The whole title which is derived from the Secretaries statements is intentionally inflammatory to help promote and gather support for this, it's just good publicity for her broad initiative, but likely the situation isn't quite so dire as it being made out. The concept itself seems solid, and is intended to manage an issue that happened, which means it's going to plug a hole that existed that could be exploited. That seems like a good approach, and clearly does not indicate that the Muslims are storming the walls of Westminster.
Hmm it is borderline for me.. handing out leaflets for a terrorist organisation does not count under freedom of speech for me, as it is provoking terrorism and encouraging it..
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