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The 1100 dollar per shock is true. And you can only buy it from mb dealer. No other option.
That includes all E class, cls and big s class.
Oil change 200 bucks.
Painful isn't it.
Gloria's post was too long I couldn't finish reading it. But a person making hundreds of millions and he drives an S class and trade them in every 6-8 years.
you see, there's some very basic and very expensive assumptions you've made which aren't true:
1) outside of the entry price (which you acknowledge is prohibitive), the BMW coverage does not include consumables. When you wear out a wiper blade ... you pay for it and the labor to install it. When the tires need replacement, you pay for them (and wait 'till you see the price for the specialty tires which fit on these cars!). When the battery wears out, you buy it (and again, it's a special battery, not something you'll get from your local parts store) because it's different voltage/charge rate battery which is computer matched to the car. And so it goes, you will still pay dearly to keep that BMW on the road on top of the admission cost.
2) If you think that a BMW or MB is expensive to keep on the road and the technology adds to the cost ... you ain't seen nothing yet until you've got a roller. My first foray into working on these rolling POS's was a seeping ride height suspension valve on the left rear of a Corniche conv. The parts package kit contained a modest size "O" ring and a ceramic spacer/thrust washer, about 1/2" in diameter and 1/8" thick. My cost, wholesale to the trade: $65!!!!. and that was decades ago. Oh, and they made a big deal about using the correct RR spec hydraulic fluid in the suspension/braking system. Foolishly, I bought a couple gallons at the dealership so that my customer could have no issue with the materials used to repair his car. That stuff, in the sealed/blessed/approved can was almost $100/gallon!!!!! I later found a source for the stuff which qualified from ATE, but it was a different color and so a dealer with a warranty claim could assert that you'd used the "wrong stuff" in the car. The "wrong stuff" would blow out the steering, suspension, and braking systems. My customer, when the ride height sense valve/switch would keep the car from starting learned to crawl underneath the car and defeat the switch so he could start it. Sometimes (frequently!), the switch was sticking and the car was really at a safe ride height to drive.
I've written on these forums about my on-again/off-again experience with a well known area RR outfit that kept, maintained, rented a sizable fleet of these cars. He'd P&M about the costs, frequently stiffed me on the repairs ... and when I'd had enough and refused to work on his next car, he'd go back to another sucker shop and get all cozy with them again. Until they'd had enough, then it was on to the next shop that would work on his cars. Sooner or later, he'd be back on my doorstep begging and pleading that a car needed to be fixed right now because it was heading out for a limo service or an owner coming back into town and needing it. The guy gave me a repeated education as to why all business that comes in the door is not necessarily good business. I had my fill of these cars after a few years ... although I had one 'benz SL customer who had about 25 RR's in his garage and would keep at least one of them running each day; it was a rare week that he didn't stop by with some problem(s) on a car that were critical to it's continued operation. They were maintenance hogs that led the way for the MB and BMW over engineering of few years later.
Beautiful to look at, precious materials and fabulous leather and wool carpets and such simply don't substitute for the electronics/electrical systems, and equipment that suffered greatly from Brit "lot rot". One of the reasons why my one customer kept 25 of these cars was so that he could reasonably count on one of them being ready to run on a given day. And they were all "nice" cars, a pleasure to drive seeped in all that "luxury" ... when they ran and everything worked.
PS: was just having a flash back to the day when I diagnosed one of these cars with having failed ignition wires leading to running/idling problems for that one customer. He wouldn't believe me that the HT wires had failed ..."rolls wouldn't use inferior materials!". But Rolls routed the ignition wires through metal tubes along the valve covers; I've never figured out their reasoning except for cosmetics and a neat underhood appearance. Anyway, the wires insulation failed and they were shorting out to the metal tubes. I could show the guy on my SunScope the intermittent firing, but he wasn't buying it. Stormed off with the car, accusing me of being a _____ rip-off ... and hey, I was going to re-wire it with Packard high quality ignition solid core wire which was superior to the OE stuff for a fraction of the cost of the OE wires. He wound up spending over $750 for an OE set to be installed by the shop he trusted with the project. There's no such thing as inexpensive around a roller shop.
Thank you for your insight and explanation. As far as the batteries going out, most that I know of will last 4 years. When I was mentioning bumper to bumper I didn't think it was assumed that I was talking about tires or wiper blades. Not that in my area wiper blades would be an issue. I live in a mild weather area. I have a 2003 Chevy that has only had 2 sets of wiper blades.
As far as older Rollers, I still see them as preferable to a new Honda or Toyota. Then again I do my own work. Also for me it would be an extra car that would see time on the road during a weekend trip or on some other special occasion. I am more familiar with older Porsche's and Ferrari's and the same can be said of their high cost of ownership. Still they are a fun car to own for someone that can take care of them.
Hello, I am in the market for a used vehicle to replace my current car.
Living in Dallas, with its insatiable appetite for new Mercedes, BMW and Porsches, there are a lot of used vehicles coming off lease it seems.
In my research, I have found that Porsche holds their values the best, while BMW and Mercedes drop like a rock in utter free fall, especially the S-class. S class are around 90-120k new and you can a 2012 with low miles for 48k! E class for 35k!
Are these famous German brands that woeful in terms of reliability?
So, therefore, need advice on these makes and models....buy or stay clear?
Other option is to go the other direction and buy new Lexus I series or Hyundai genesis/equus.
You are living in a great area for used cars. I keep an eye out for some of them, but not Mercedes since they don't import any standard shift vehicles, but the Dallas region is a good place to look. I would consider flying to Dallas just to buy a car and drive it back home. Not to mention the great roads down there and good weather for the most part.
Mercedes are probably okay if you stay with E class and above. German cars these days are way better in reliability than in the past decade. Porsche might be top dog if you are okay with a sports car. That is what I probably will be getting next. Currently drive an Audi and love it. Has 120K miles on it and I live in the worst place for cars and it has cost me about nothing to own. Might be the best car I have owned and I have had over 20, including Japanese, German and a host of other higher end cars. I think Audi has stepped up their game quite a bit. BMW, which I owned a couple have gone a little down hill IMHO, but in Dallas with that weather and great roads, it would be hard to go wrong. Believe me, Pittsburgh is wicked hard on cars!
quote: "As far as the batteries going out, most that I know of will last 4 years."
yup, most conventional batteries will last 4 years in most climate/driving applications.
But here's the BMW over-the-top high technology difference (and where you've made an assumption that ain't so about BMW automotive batteries):
BMW, in their pursuit of fuel efficiency and absolute best performance has designed an electrical/electronics computerized suite that takes the alternator load off-line when the car is idling, or when the throttle is used beyond a certain percentage load (like accelerating to merge with traffic). So the battery must be a deep-cycle battery to carry the electrical loads without much voltage drop during those times the alternator is off-line, not charging.
BMW engineers weren't satisfied with the standard automotive batteries in the marketplace because they couldn't carry the electrical loads for the projected times, like sitting at a traffic light with climate controls ... such as in a cold climate where the heater blower and window defrosting and seat heaters might be in service along with the engine management and lights and maybe a stereo system on. Instead, BMW designed their own battery, and it is designed to be charged at a different voltage and higher amperage for a faster cycle recharge than a standard automotive lead-acid battery. The computer is sensitive to these parameters and the car will not function on a standard battery. You must use the BMW dedicated battery, and it's a lot more expensive than standard car batteries.
A glance at a major national aftermarket supplier chart shows an MT5 AGM battery as the correct one for late model BMW's. Dealer list: approx. $300. Discount retail from the aftermarket: $265. And that's with only a 30 month pro-rata guaranty, a pretty short expected service life due to the frequently repeated charge/discharge cycling of the battery.
You'll encounter the same BMW over-the-top engineering when it comes to tires. OE is a "run-flat" performance tire and you'll rarely find other tires that will fit the original rims; ie, you're stuck with the BMW spec tire. For example, look at Tire Rack for discount pricing on the appropriate tires (and some BMW's don't use the same size tire F&R, so it's a mixed set).
For a late model 3-series sedan, figure on $1,300 ... just for discount tires, not mounted/balanced. In my experience with these cars from neighbors with them on lease now, they don't get a very long tire life ... in our rural area with the dirt/gravel roads they must travel ... 40,000 miles is exceptional. With 65-100 mile daily commutes, that's only 2-3 years of tire life.
Comparing the technology driven aspects of these late model BMW's has little in common with the older Porsche's and Ferraris. While one has a perception that those performance cars of yesteryear were pricey, they don't hold a candle to the newer cars. At least, that's my experience after owning several 356B & C Porsches, a 904, and several 308 Ferrari's. I could buy those cars for reasonable money and keep them on the road for not too much money ... with all the parts readily available from euro-direct importer/WD's, I rarely had to buy special stuff from a dealer. While I wouldn't call these cars cheap to own/operate ... I was in the $5,000 marketplace for all the Porsches I could possibly want back then and they didn't cost that much to keep on the road as long as I didn't buy a rusty one to start with (which I did more than a couple times, and turned those cars as fast as I could to somebody willing to deal with the problems).
BMW has gone out of their way to design their cars in such a way as to require specialty items unique to their vehicles at a tiny performance or other benefit improvement over the standards of the industry ... IMO, the intent was clear: to capture as much of the aftermarket back into the dealer network for the service life of the cars. In many countries, this is how it's done ... but in the USA, we are accustomed to using the aftermarket at reasonable cost to keep our vehicles on the road.
In any event, I wouldn't try to infer RR ownership/operating costs with those of these older cars. RR was in a league of it's own for reliability and limited availability of parts at exhorbitant prices.
The 1100 dollar per shock is true. And you can only buy it from mb dealer. No other option.
That includes all E class, cls and big s class.
Oil change 200 bucks.
Painful isn't it.
Gloria's post was too long I couldn't finish reading it. But a person making hundreds of millions and he drives an S class and trade them in every 6-8 years.
That's one cheap B***stard.
How long does the $1100 shock last? I have my original shocks on my Audi that is almost 10 years old and has 120K miles on it and I live in pothole filled Pittsburgh. How much something costs might reflect good quality. Maybe shocks are cheap for other cars, but they last 50K and you still are going to have to pay labor for install unless you do it yourself.
If someone is paying $200 for an oil change, they aren't really too sharp. Mine cost about $60 for my Audi with Castrol full synthetic and filter.
Cars are a complete liability, so keeping them longer is more cost effective. Not everyone has to go around buying a new car all the time to impress others. As soon as you drive that new car off the lot, it takes a pounding in value. Keeping it a little longer is the smart option if you are smart and aren't all about telling everyone, "look at me, look at me, I have a NEW car!" Of course she is driving an S-class, so that is pretty obnoxious. I am not a fan of them with their very poor fuel economy and too much crap going on. I am a driver and need a manual transmission, so Mercedes is out for me. They keep the manuals in Europe knowing that in America, it is about cup holders and more room due to obesity issues.
You'll encounter the same BMW over-the-top engineering when it comes to tires. OE is a "run-flat" performance tire and you'll rarely find other tires that will fit the original rims; ie, you're stuck with the BMW spec tire. For example, look at Tire Rack for discount pricing on the appropriate tires (and some BMW's don't use the same size tire F&R, so it's a mixed set).
For a late model 3-series sedan, figure on $1,300 ... just for discount tires, not mounted/balanced. In my experience with these cars from so neighbors with them on lease now, they don't get a very long tire life ... in our rural area with the dirt/gravel roads they must travel ... 40,000 miles is exceptional. With 65-100 mile daily commutes, that's only 2-3 years of tire life.
Total BS. There are countless options for tires on even the staggered set up on a 335i sport package. I wouldn't drive in run-flats ever. Junk!
People love to scare others that BMW, Audi and Mercedes are super expensive to maintain. The parts are more because they are better for the most part. There are usually aftermarket options, but to be honest, I run factory everything on my Audi. I have an Interstate Battery in my car at the moment and it has been in there for years. Tires are not cheap, but there were cheaper options when I purchased and I had countless options. No big deal.
Keep in mine the OP is from Dallas. Great area to be if you want a great car. Roads are amazing and the weather is also pretty darn nice for a car most of the time.
OP, go for the high end car down there. You could even drive it for a year or two and sell it to someone up north for a good price. Dallas has cheaper used cars due to turnover that creates larger supply.
The 1100 dollar per shock is true. And you can only buy it from mb dealer. No other option.
That includes all E class, cls and big s class.
Oil change 200 bucks.
Painful isn't it.
Gloria's post was too long I couldn't finish reading it. But a person making hundreds of millions and he drives an S class and trade them in every 6-8 years.
That's one cheap B***stard.
Sorry I wrote such a megilleh. Anyway, the person described has amassed a net worth in excess of a hundred million. That is different from "making hundreds of millions".
And I will also point out the MAIN point of that passage, which is that AFTER keeping the cars for years after lapse of warranty, he passes them on to his son. And the son finds them perfectly satisfactory.
As for being a 'cheap ----ard'.... Yes, he is. Most successful structural engineers (the ones wealthier than their peers) are worth five or six million, by the time they near retirement (not much, by Upper Middle Class standards). The fact that my friend is worth twenty times that amount attests to the wisdom of being cheap (his buildings are marvels, in terms of cost savings, and he can still have a positive cash flow at well below 50% occupancy - even while heavily leveraged).
The point is that big Mercedes, for many, offer benefits in line with the cost and trouble required to maintain them.
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