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harry - I can answer this, they still would be annoyed, both are very sucessfull at what they do and do have that great job. My point is, it doesn't matter if you are a millionaire or just making it in Miami, you can still be unhappy with Miami as whole. Its easy to assume that just because they aren't happy in Miami that they are miserable people in life, but in fact they are the exact opposite. Many happy people can live in a city they dislike and still be happy people. Miami is not perfect for everyone as it does have many cultural issues that lie below the surface. Anglos have left Miami because they have watched Miami change so much the last 10-15 years to the point its not the same for them.
Last edited by doggiebus; 01-09-2010 at 08:11 PM..
I (being a Latin origin from a European country) do not understand a lot of the stereotypes of Cuban people - especially from Anglos.
The Cuban people I have met have been some of the nicest people in all of my travels.
They can be sophisticated, cosmopolitan, extremely intelligent, open-minded, ambitious, hard-working, you name it you can find it.
The Cuban population is as diverse as the Anglo population.
The ones I have for friends are truly wonderful people, and my interest in Cuba has just skyrocketed. I can visit with my home country passport as long as I pass through another country.
I guess my main question is regarding the Anglo-Americans.
This group is a mystery to me.
My Anglo friends tell me that many Anglos don't feel comfortable here and they are moving out in droves.
However, a poster here says that exodus will slow to a halt.
Are Anglos moving in or moving out?
Anglo-Americans in Miami do not have a problem with Cuban-Americans or even with many Cubans. Some Anglo-Americans have a problem with the minority of Cubans (as in, this doesn't apply to most Cubans) who don't seem to be interested in assimilating to mainstream American culture and learning to speak English well. Adding to this problem, especially in the last 10-20 years is the fact that immigration from several other Spanish-speaking countries has rapidly increased. Many Americans in Miami (including many Americans of Latin heritage) feel that Miami is becoming dominated by immigrants that aren't as inclined to assimilate as earlier immigrant groups have been. Though I do believe that most immigrants do make efforts to assimilate, I think the aforementioned concern is a legitimate one.
Since you are from the Mediterranean, I will give you an example from there. Along Spain's Costa del Sol there are thousands upon thousands of British expatriates living in gated communities there. Many of the Brits make nearly no effort whatsoever to learn Castilian and seem very uninterested in the Spanish culture. This is upsetting to the Spanish locals. When I used to live in Madrid, I discussed the issue with a couple of people who vacationed on the coast and even read a few negative opinions regarding the issue in a newspaper. In short, this is the issue many Americans, both Anglo and Latin, have with the newer immigrants to Miami. Again, I disagree to an extent because I believe that most immigrants to Miami do make efforts to assimilate, but I can certainly see their point. The concern isn't with people of Latin origin and it certainly isn't with Cubans; it's of a perceived lack of effort to assimilate to mainstream American culture and learn (and use/practice) English. People in Pennsylvania in the mid-to-late 1800's voiced the exact same issue with the stream of immigrants coming from Germany.
So,there are irreversible psychological factors which can make anyone leave a certain place...
As for assimilation,it is a tricky word...
If it means...faking it to pose as a typical American,I am against it...
If it means no arrogance,confrontation,ethnic show-off,then I am for it...
One good move would be to scrap all separate ethnic celebrations & establish the "Ethnic Day",a national holiday for anyone to honour his ethnic origin & that's it...
On that Ethnic Day we can incorporate the MLK holiday,Cinqo de Mayo,St Patrick's Day etc...
I just had a neighbor who is anglo just yesterday say to me he wants to leave Miami. I asked him why, he said he was tired of going into stores and all you hear is Spanish, he said a few other things too he was tired of Miami. And he wants to move back to California if that tells you anything. He said Miami isn't Multi Cultural its 60% hispanic and growing. I just ran into an old friend today who is not anglo and he too has had it with Miami and wants to move. I asked him why, and he mentioned the spanish thing too, along and wanting to start a family, he said he wouldn't raise a family here in Miami and he grew up in Miami if that tells you something. He said the last 10-15 years Miami has changed so much and not for the good. From what I have seen its not Anglos alone that stereotype Cubans people from other countries do stereotype Cubans too. What I have learned is usually the people in the minority will have issues with the people in the majority. An example the blacks in the south have had issue with the white majority. So the minority here the white and blacks will have problems with the majority hispanic Miami population.
I will say this, I know many anglos that have left Miami already, and many that would love to leave but haven't yet. But just the same I know a few non anglos that want to leave Miami too. Are anglo numbers going to continue to decrease or increase. I probably would lean to a decrease, just for the fact many anglos that are still here are older and they will probably die here. Many of the anglos I grew up with didn't return to Miami after college, and will never return.
Interesting I know many second generation hispanic- Americans , that also want to leave Miami due to how it has changed over the last ten-fifteen years or so .. we have Hispanic friends many of whom are US citizens and have embraced and assimilated to the US way of life and have either moved or are waiting for the economy to improve so the can move to Broward , Palm Beach , Martin County , North Florida or even out of state ... they claim that many recent immigrants from Latin America will not assimilate or are of lower educational levels and yes just like Anglos ... they do not care for some of these new comers or these radical changes in Miami either . I have also heard from many professional hispanics that harbor some resentment towards the recent waves of immigrants who do not seen to want to assimilate and seem to be looking for free rides . We have neighbors in Parkland from Colombia and Argentina that immigrated after busting their chops to come here legally in the 60's , 70's & 80's , learning the language working two jobs and going to college ... that really are unaccepting of Miami and some of the things that go on down there . I know Cubans as well that have moved to Palm Beach Gardens , Tampa , Jacksonville and even Atlanta and Charlotte to get way from the Miami "lifestyle " .... it is definitely untrue that all Hispanics love Miami and think it is nirvana ... I know some Cubans included that dislike Miami as much or more than fleeing Anglos .
This is a very interesting subject...The reasons which make people leave a city they like ,because of culture clash...
It happens in many places..
I guess the Big 3,NYC,CH.LA have the biggest percentage of culturebirds ( my term...).
But what exactly they don't like...?
Let's say that a neighbour comes,who is not as hard working,patriotic etc...
In what way does he bother u ? If there is no noise,no garbage,no disturbance,no eyesore,then what...?
The older gen can relocate within the city,but it seems absurd to leave the entire city of Mia or the state of FL...?
Plenty of questions which need serious soulsearching...
If we answer these questions we can predict future demographics with relative accuracy...
Honestly, when the term "colored," "person of color," or "minority" arises, I think of blacks as well. It is only very recently that the media have begun to label dark-skinned Latinos, Indians, East Asians, etc. as "persons of color." Additionally, I honestly do not think that the proponents of affirmative action in the 1970's (when it began to be widely practiced) intended it to benefit all of these non-white immigrant groups. The policies may have referred to "colored" people, but they almost certainly were referring to blacks.
Honestly, I wish we could get over this skin color analysis.
It's true I was fascinated with skin color in college when I was trying to figure out which Latin American countries contained the most beautiful women. Now I know they are in every country.
In Miami, it is crystal clear that the potential of the individual's mind has nothing to do with the skin color.
We all know that it's not the superficial color of the skin that makes any kind of difference in a person's value to society, it's his/her character. And with character is a lot of other things, educational motivation, ambition, intellectual curiosity, etc and the list goes on.
So, I think we can move beyond skin-color based discussions.
A human is a human is a human, it doesn't matter the color.
Besides, I'm from a mixed background. We never know what color skin the child will be in my family. So, if that's the case, how can we continue to discuss race? How many of you have a mixed backgound like me?
I also wish we could get over nationality and nationalism.
The country I was born in, I am not proud to be that nationality. It doesn't mean I don't love the country. I love it very much. It's just that I don't feel that I have contributed anything noteworthy to be proud of there. Fine, I have benefitted from history in that country, but should I be proud of those who lived 100 years before me? I never knew them personally. Sure, I've had some career success there, but that's personal, not national. I didn't choose to be born in the country I was.
For me, there is nothing to be proud of.
I was an accident people.
If my dad would have delayed his ... you know ... "coming" a minute later (or even less) like my mom wanted, I would not have been born.
So why all of this nationalism?
In any case, my friends from different countries mix together, and we never get into nationalist arguments. On the contrary, we all want to travel and visit each other's countries.
Honestly, I wish we could get over this skin color analysis.
It's true I was fascinated with skin color in college when I was trying to figure out which Latin American countries contained the most beautiful women. Now I know they are in every country.
In Miami, it is crystal clear that the potential of the individual's mind has nothing to do with the skin color.
We all know that it's not the superficial color of the skin that makes any kind of difference in a person's value to society, it's his/her character. And with character is a lot of other things, educational motivation, ambition, intellectual curiosity, etc and the list goes on.
So, I think we can move beyond skin-color based discussions.
A human is a human is a human, it doesn't matter the color.
Besides, I'm from a mixed background. We never know what color skin the child will be in my family. So, if that's the case, how can we continue to discuss race? How many of you have a mixed backgound like me?
I also wish we could get over nationality and nationalism.
The country I was born in, I am not proud to be that nationality. It doesn't mean I don't love the country. I love it very much. It's just that I don't feel that I have contributed anything noteworthy to be proud of there. Fine, I have benefitted from history in that country, but should I be proud of those who lived 100 years before me? I never knew them personally. Sure, I've had some career success there, but that's personal, not national. I didn't choose to be born in the country I was.
For me, there is nothing to be proud of.
I was an accident people.
If my dad would have delayed his ... you know ... "coming" a minute later (or even less) like my mom wanted, I would not have been born.
So why all of this nationalism?
In any case, my friends from different countries mix together, and we never get into nationalist arguments. On the contrary, we all want to travel and visit each other's countries.
Honestly, I wish we could get over this skin color analysis. We all know that it's not the superficial color of the skin that makes any kind of difference in a person's value to society, it's his/her character. And with character is a lot of other things, educational motivation, ambition, intellectual curiosity, etc and the list goes on.
So, I think we can move beyond skin-color based discussions.
A human is a human is a human, it doesn't matter the color.
Besides, I'm from a mixed background. We never know what color skin the child will be in my family. So, if that's the case, how can we continue to discuss race?
I wish we could get over it, too. But in this country, we aren't over it and neither are other places in the Western world with people of different colors living there.
I am so tired of discussing race and ethnicity over and over again on this forum, but when people say things like "no Hispanics are white," "blacks are predisposed to commit crime," and "white=good; brown=ok; black=bad," what am I supposed to do? Ignore it and simply respond that skin color doesn't matter? The truth is that in order to move beyond race, ethnicity, skin color, nationality, and like issues, we must identify the myths and falsities surrounding these issues and dispell them. When people in Iowa equate Latin Americans with illegal immigration and people in suburban NJ equate blacks with blight and crime, perhaps that's all they have ever seen. It is useful to point out examples of legal, successful Latin immigrants in this country and of nice, safe majority-black areas when responding to people who complain of these respective issues. And yes, when the discussion zones in on "Hispanics" or "Latinos" as it often does in the Miami forum, it certainly does help to explain that an Anglo-American scared to move to Westwood Lakes should take comfort in the fact that many of the people there, though "Hispanic," are white Americans just like him/her.
I'm sorry, but this country isn't anywhere near ready to let go of all of the talk about race, ethnicity, nationality, and skin color. We need a dialogue such as the one in this thread before we can even dream of moving on past all of those issues. One thing I think we should do as a society, though, is stop using the term "minority" when referring to people who are not Anglo-American. What good is a divisive term such as that; one that creates two groups in which the "members" within may not even identify with each other in the least? I cringe every time I read a news story about "blacks and Latinos," hear about an organization/group for "minorities," or see universities publish statistics on "students of color." Some of these terms ring so hollow to me and to many others in this country.
It’s difficult to engage in a discussion about relationships amongst ethnic groups without making reference to historical anecdotes. From the American Indian, European Settlers, Founding Founders,, etc. . .most of us know our US history, so fast forward to present:
The world is rapidly changing and no matter where people take flight to in order to avoid these so-called minority groups, they will experience more of the same, unless of course, they isolate themselves from society and even then they will have to interact with them in some form or another because the bottom line is. . . the United States is a nation of immigrants
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