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I'm not exactly a rap connoisseur (in fact the only rap I like is the 80s stuff like Kurtis Blow and Run DMC) but I can't believe how bad 50 Cent is. He puts almost no emotion or feeling into his rapping and just sits back and rakes in money. It's very irritating.
. Were record labels more truly interested in good music in the 70s?
No. Not at all! There was plenty of junk--especially in the latter half of the decade.
But the record people who *were* interested in good music, such as Ahmet Ertegun, actively sought, nurtured, and guided talented artists, letting them develop as individuals. I could be wrong, but it seemed to me that the real heavy hitters back then were worthy of their fame.
Breaking into the music business now in general is tougher on one hand, yet easier on the other--because of the money involved.
The hip hop thing, the cultural movement aspect of it, the political consciousness, actually reminds me of the 70's.
And the bling aspect kinda reminds me of when Disco raised its head.
I know that there is always still good music out there.
Maybe I should just drop out of the discussion because I really know so little about hip hop.
It's just I have been observing the evolving music business for a long time; I probably would not have entered this thread if not for a certain (off topic, IMHO) post that lured me in.
If your name starts with " lil' ", then you're killing hip hop.
Check out Binary Star, Atmosphere, or Brother Ali for some fine hip hop.
Hah!
Generally I agree - but I kind of like Lil' Wayne's delivery. I don't know his stuff too well but he sounds like a decent rapper.
Aesop Rock is also a good place to start for those curious about how good, non-mainstream hip-hop sounds. He's got an odd voice but really interesting flow and some of the most intelligent (and not overtly political) lyrics around.
Always has solid musical production behind him, too.
That said... if I had to say "who ruined rap music" I'd have to say it all started with N.W.A. They are the ones who mainstreamed the idea of turning rap from a running social commentary about the plight and conditions of the urban black underclass into a value-neutral first-person narrative of drug use, drug dealing, violence, crass materialism and disrespecting (as opposed to "merely" objectifying) women. The social commentary that acts like Grand Master Flash and Public Enemy railed against ("these things aren't good, let's fight to fix them") somehow transformed into expectations and even ambitions with the next wave of rap artists. At least, that's how I see it from a cultural perspective. And that's hard to square with how I see it from an artistic perspective, because NWA and its fissile particles (Eazy E, Dr. Dre, Ice Cube) made huge strides in the artistic element of rap. Talk about a double-edged sword.
Yeah man, as much as I hate to admit it, I agree. NWA started it, and to me, 50 Cent finished it off. I like Hip Hop and will listen to most anything except for fiddy.
That said... if I had to say "who ruined rap music" I'd have to say it all started with N.W.A. They are the ones who mainstreamed the idea of turning rap from a running social commentary about the plight and conditions of the urban black underclass into a value-neutral first-person narrative of drug use, drug dealing, violence, crass materialism and disrespecting (as opposed to "merely" objectifying) women. The social commentary that acts like Grand Master Flash and Public Enemy railed against ("these things aren't good, let's fight to fix them") somehow transformed into expectations and even ambitions with the next wave of rap artists. At least, that's how I see it from a cultural perspective. And that's hard to square with how I see it from an artistic perspective, because NWA and its fissile particles (Eazy E, Dr. Dre, Ice Cube) made huge strides in the artistic element of rap. Talk about a double-edged sword.
I was going to say NWA as well. They were the ones to push me away from listening to rap, and by the end of 1993, I was hardly buying any rap CDs. I agree that there was some artistry to what they did, but their nihilism was too much for me ("You think I give a **** about a *****? I ain't a sucker!"). Sure, there is something called a literary persona. There is putting on a role. But rap shot itself in the foot by simultaneously emphasizing "keeping it real." At some point you can't have it both ways, and when rappers and there crews started killing each other, it made the whole NWA-type nihilism a little too real.
At this point, I'm pretty much in the anti-rap camp at this point. The whole thing is just too tainted by bad associations. (Even if I go back to Public Enemy and all the Five Percenter stuff I used to listen to in my 20s, it's not like I can really get behind the belief system they were pushing*, but at least there was some kind of positive social vibe to a lot of it.)
I wouldnt go so far as to say "Destruction of Hip Hop" because its still be most popular form of music with the 12-40 year old demographic. I would say that to me, most of the rap part hip hop today is just terrible. Terrible on ALL levels. Terrible lyrically. Terrible musically. Terrible images. Terrible how the play it on the radio by never playing the full song, they have to cut it short and mix in other songs or worse yet, just play the hook part of a good song then mix in some crap. Just not good.
You may have your occasional really good song (i.e., "In Da Club"; "Gold Digger"; "Lean Like a Cholo"; "My Lumps") but for every good one song there are about 50 awful songs that hurts the ear to listen. Terrible crap like T.I., Solja Boy and Common. MTV pushes these people on the masses and forces their videos to be played. There is a really cool YouTube video of Travis Barker playing drums to Soulja Boy song - Travis rocks.
But overall, the artistry of rap/hip hop is no more.
Man, just when I thought this thread was as good as buried...
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