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Pac had versatility. He had SOO much versatility. You can say Biggie, or Jay or whoever was better on the mic, and that's understandable, but Pac's versatility gave him longevity. Pac had a song about ANYTHING.
They are all good rappers but cant compare to KRS 1
Well, you could say the same thing about Biggie not wanting to come at Pac after Hit Em' Up, even though Biggie has better lyrical skillz. In hip-hop nothing goes to far. Mobb Deep did there thing lyrically, but nothing was really said about what was going on with Pac, that made you say OHHH. It was good lyrics, no sting.
Precisely.
Quote:
Originally Posted by polo89
If's shoulda, woulda, could've. YES Biggie had better lyrical skillz, but BOTTOM LINE Pac got'em. If's And's But's. WHATEVER. Just respect BOTH MC'S. They all had better lyrical skillz then PAC, BUT Hit' Em' Up was one of the BEST dis tracks ever. Pac's lyrical skillz are underrated. People only listen to songs like California Love, and I get Around, and look at Pac through these songs.
Exactly! The best, most classic diss tracks are direct, and not weak ass subliminals. Dollars & Sense was one of my favorites. Quik came out and owned Eiht on that one and was on some real s**t that got serious, and not some little swipe at Eiht's lyrics or something like that.
That Hail Mary track with 50, Em and Busta was off the hook too. I love tracks like that. I personally didn't care for Ether and always liked Stillmatic better. All the little jabs are not wasted on me, I catch it when they throw little disses like that. It just doesn't impress me and I'm not really feeling it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by polo89
I agree. It's always off limits if it's not from the EASTCOAST, but god forbid a WESTCOAST rapper goes that far. Everybody talking bout "Who Shot Ya", then Hit Em Up came out, and the EASTCOAST wants to CRY!
LOL I know, seriously. Its frickin lame. If BIG had said it to Prodigy it would've been hailed as excellence!
BIG's first & second verse from Brooklyn Finest! Show me sum tight Pac lyrics????
Verse 1
F7ck fist fights and lame scuffles
Pillowcase to your face
Make the shell muffle
Shoot your daughter in her calf muscle
Nickle plated
Sprinkle coke on the floor
Make it drug related
Verse 2
Who shot ya
Mob ties like Sinatra
Peruvians wanna do me in
I ain't paid them yet
I'm trying to push 700's (S class)
They ain't made them yet
Rolex and bracelets is frosbit, rings too
Ni$$as round the way call me igloo sticks
Exactly, Diss tracks like Mob Deeps, and Biggies, were REALLY good as far as lyrical skillz, but at the end of the day, they're just subliminal disses, wrapped up in lovely similees, and metaphors, like a little gift. Pac was Straight To The Point, "I did this this and that", and "I'm GONNA do this this and that", to "YOU YOU and ESPECIALLY YOU", and "that's what I think about ALL OF YOU". Those tracks get the most respect.
That's how I feel about it. I get the concept that the fans of subliminals are buying into since hip hop is an art form blah blah blah. But I'd rather hear a raw diss that just owns someone over wordplay. And if they can be more creative and make it pretty then more power to 'em. Xzibit had another personal favorite of mine ripping Jermain Dupri a few years back:
If ya So So Def than b**ch get a hearing aid
Ain't worth ya gauge ya heart pumping lemonade
Hook, line and sinker ya took the bait
Act ya age, not ya size, not ya weight
Every time you professional making hits
Why it always gotta sound like the next men sh*t?
Went from Big to Puff to Snoop to Jay
Hey Jermaine who's d*ck you gon' ride today?
Couldn't wait to get the green light from Dr. Dre
Never liked ya f**kin' ass any g*dd*mn way
And I could care less if we label mates
Your style been dead Columbians should drop the weight
I got love for Da Brat get off Bow Wow back
F**k you, f**k ya n****s that's writing ya raps
What up loc get ya L.A. pass revoked
Don't get me wrong Papa Smurf you won't get smoked
But ya might get robbed and choked
Or you might disappear, kidnapped with no ransom note
Off the leash, off the hook, off the chain
F**k Jermaine you ain't gotta say my name
Speak now or forever hold a d**k in ya mouth
You ain't the mayor, you don't run s**t in the South
Scarface run the South muthaf**ka you a peon
The underage b**ch in the Kelly tape getting pee'd on
****-eyed midget with a Napoleon complex
Nickelodeon fetish you represent nonsense
Harlem Shake to that, high jump to hell
You the best in the business, I can't tell
Too late to apologize kiss my ass
We about to cut your whole sound scan in half
Got to keep your hands up homie protect yo'self
Stop f**king with the West n***a respect yo'self
It's a short ride to the top and a long way down
Look Man vs. Machine about to drop now
This ain't no beef it's more like lunch meat
Loss caliber heat let's take it to the street muh'f**ka
Nothing weak about that! I like it b/c its creative but its still direct. This is the type of diss that appeals to me more than ANY subliminal.
Subliminal lyrics are better because anybody can make a wack a$$ curse song.
BIG'S second verse from "Can't Stop the Reign" with Shaq
A lime to a lemon, my DC women
bringin in ten G minimums to condos with elevators in em
Vehicles with televisions in em
Watch they entourage turn yours to just mirages
Disappearing acts, strictly nines and macs
Killers be serial, Copperfield material
My dreams is vivid, work hard to live it
Any place I visit, I got land there
How can players (PAC) stand there and say I sound like them, hello
Push wigs back and push six Coupes that's yellow
Plus clips that expand from hand to elbow
Spray up your Day's Inn, any 'telle you in
Crack braggin sick of braggin how my mink be draggin
Desert ease street sweeper inside the beamer wagon
I rely on Bed-Stuy to shut it down if I die
Put that on my diamond bezel, you're messin with the devil
WHAT!!
Exactly. Public Enemy didn't have all that lyrical wordplay, but NOBODY in there right mind would criticize them. That's why I think worplay is just ONE thing, and not the WHOLE thing. Anybody could have wordplay and crazy skillz on the mic and rap about absolutely NOTHING. That's why I like people like Pac, Talib, Mos, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mas23
thats true. There are plenty of rappers who really dont talk about much but since their word play and vocabulary is good they're praised. I consider those guys as over-rated.
Same here, I completely agree with both of you. Fancy wordplay that doesn't accompany any kind of substance is nothing more than a distraction that simpletons are impressed by. Canibus is a perfect example. He got all kinds of praise as being a great MC and he wrote garbage like this:
"Black sicilians, the descendants of west indian pilgrims
With the power to collapse buildings
Riding across the ocean floor like poseidon on a seahorse
To reach our overseas tours"
Pure garbage. I can't stand crap like that. I get what he's saying, I just think its retarded. Too Short and Spice 1 may not have complex lyrics, but what they talk about is deeper than any nonsense like that. At least songs like "The Ghetto" and "Welcome To The Ghetto" are actually about something. Not that all their music is deep and meaningful either, but their objective is to make music and not try and blow people away with how versed they are in reading through a thesaurus.
I'm interested in content, whether it be musical or the message being communicated. Not similes and metaphors. To me that kind of wordplay is kind of like Capoeira. Its flashy and it looks kinda cool in small doses, but at the end of the day its not all that effective of a martial art. Wordplay alone to me does not make music.
KRS-One - although kinda out of his mind - is a pretty good example of a rapper who tries to be on all that "enlightened" BS but still makes good music. Nas is even better b/c he has quality content and spectacular lyrics. His stuff appeals to me, and Wu Tang's did at first, but again I'd rather bump Bring The Pain and Brooklyn Zoo than Liquid Swords. Of course I'd bump "Chessboxin" before either one of those two tho!
Subliminal lyrics are better because anybody can make a wack a$$ curse song.
BIG'S second verse from "Can't Stop the Reign" with Shaq
A lime to a lemon, my DC women
bringin in ten G minimums to condos with elevators in em
Vehicles with televisions in em
Watch they entourage turn yours to just mirages
Disappearing acts, strictly nines and macs
Killers be serial, Copperfield material
My dreams is vivid, work hard to live it
Any place I visit, I got land there How can players (PAC) stand there and say I sound like them, hello
Push wigs back and push six Coupes that's yellow
Plus clips that expand from hand to elbow
Spray up your Day's Inn, any 'telle you in
Crack braggin sick of braggin how my mink be draggin
Desert ease street sweeper inside the beamer wagon
I rely on Bed-Stuy to shut it down if I die
Put that on my diamond bezel, you're messin with the devil
WHAT!!
His rhymes were ALWAYS on point, but that subliminal diss was aight, it wasn't something that STINGS. He had better skilz on the mic then Pac(obviously), but Pac was just as raw. Alot more raw then ya'll give him credit for.
Pac: It's a gotdamn shame, how you gonna send a Bad Boy to play a grown mans game?
I forgot what Pac song that was from. It might have been Hail Mary.
Last edited by polo89; 02-23-2010 at 07:02 PM..
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