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I'm doing some research on towns with post industrial economies. Now that the history has all been well covered and we know where the towns stand at this point, i'd like to be able to get into some details about what exactly is so "bad" about living in or around these areas. I'd like to hear stories from anybody who is familiar with that area, or has even driven through once or twice. Share your experiences no matter how good or negative they may be.
Things like if anyone has spoken to the residents of the area, any significant events that happened in the past 10 years to the town, what would happen if a white individual were to wander through the town and try to learn anything from the locals about it, how the "open air" drug markets exist so easily.
I think you get the drift. But please. share you or your friends experiences in as much detail as possible. Thanks.
I'm doing some research on towns with post industrial economies. Now that the history has all been well covered and we know where the towns stand at this point, i'd like to be able to get into some details about what exactly is so "bad" about living in or around these areas. I'd like to hear stories from anybody who is familiar with that area, or has even driven through once or twice. Share your experiences no matter how good or negative they may be.
Things like if anyone has spoken to the residents of the area, any significant events that happened in the past 10 years to the town, what would happen if a white individual were to wander through the town and try to learn anything from the locals about it, how the "open air" drug markets exist so easily.
I think you get the drift. But please. share you or your friends experiences in as much detail as possible. Thanks.
What's happened in Camden has happened in U.S. cities everywhere. Post WWII white flight fueled by economic prosperity and accelerated by race riots in the 1960s and finally exacerbated by the economic downturn/crack epidemic of the 1980s. That's the dime novel version, but it's basically what happened. There have been a few books written about Camden's history and 20/20 did a decent special about a year ago. As far as doing the research yourself, you're asking for trouble. Any person who "doesn't belong," white , black, or purple, isn't going to be looked upon favorably by local gangs if they're asking questions. I suggest doing some research in library rather than on the street.
That being said, you may learn a lot by hanging around the rapidly yuppifying waterfront. AFAIK there are folks moving into the old Victor building and of course there are plenty of people who live and work on the Rutgers campus. Just out of curiosity-is this for doctoral research or something of that nature?
What's happened in Camden has happened in U.S. cities everywhere. Post WWII white flight fueled by economic prosperity and accelerated by race riots in the 1960s and finally exacerbated by the economic downturn/crack epidemic of the 1980s. That's the dime novel version, but it's basically what happened. There have been a few books written about Camden's history and 20/20 did a decent special about a year ago. As far as doing the research yourself, you're asking for trouble. Any person who "doesn't belong," white , black, or purple, isn't going to be looked upon favorably by local gangs if they're asking questions. I suggest doing some research in library rather than on the street.
That being said, you may learn a lot by hanging around the rapidly yuppifying waterfront. AFAIK there are folks moving into the old Victor building and of course there are plenty of people who live and work on the Rutgers campus. Just out of curiosity-is this for doctoral research or something of that nature?
What he said.
I live in Camden and don't even bother to leave the house at night...really!
Open air drug markets, on most corners...but not all. Mostly if there is an abandon house(s) around. I'm lucky in that I live in one of the best kept secrets in town...but it's finally starting to get out now...off of Waldorf Avenue out East. It was bad while I was in HS (90-94) but now the Bloods are in town trying to gain territory...just like in Philly. They crept in from the northern part of the state. And this city is too small for territorial warfare.
There are nice people left in the city, but mainly work and come home...and stay indoors. It's a city that belongs to the younger kids (13-26yo) as the population's median age is about 25 or so. I'm 31, and past that 'phase' in my life, and being an Air Force veteran, I've been around the country...so I know better. Most of these kids never even been to the shore, this is all they know.
I was in middle school when crack hit the streets. Back then there were street gangs like 3-2 (32nd street in the now torndown Westfield Acres) 8Ball (south 8th street in Centerville), 4-5-6 (Streets in North Camden) And a lot of street named gangs of about 20-30 people in them. Back then people use to get jumped, and rival street gangs would fight at either Farnham park (Camden high park) or Dudley Grange (across from Woodrow Wilson High) It wasn't until I was about to graduate HS when people started using guns. SOMX (Sons of Malcolm X, a Gang from North) had an initiation where the members drove around at night without their headlights on, and would shot at the car that flashed their lights. Things really heated up in 95-96 when we had 61 murders. I left for the AF in 96...it was too hot here for me.
There was a report in the local paper (Courier Post) that stated employers discriminated against people with Camden addresses, and didn't hire them for the most part... so you have a suburban driven drug industry where people can make fast cash. It's a socialist city, where we don't have any powers, and that the Dems have a vice over the city for $$$ The state is in charge of everything in local government. I call it an experiment, from apathetic voters leading to a state takeover, eminent domain (4-billion dollar plus plans to 'regentrify' the city which the people fought to stop...I mean come on, do we really need a golf course?) I think it's just to see how much the state and gov't can do before people start fighting back...as a tool for other cities, towns, etc.
Camden is shot for the most part. But there are diamonds in the rough here. I was born right when the town was going downhill. I remember having white neighbors around 30th and Carmen streets up until I was 7. There are3 white households in a 2 block radius of my house. Mexicans are moving in quick like. We've always had Purto ricans during my lifetime. Blacks are moving out to the inner ring suburbs, but the city is still about 50% black. Fairview (Yorkship Sq.) used to be all white, but now it's like 70-80% black, 20% white. Demographics are really changing, as people are moving to different parts of the city than how it used to be...but that's life.
I believe the BOE is the largest employer of city residents, and that's shot to hell. Cooper is the second. They built up the waterfront, but left the rest of the neighborhoods, (North, Downtown, South, Centerville, Morgan Village, Fairview, Pollocktown (as the locals call it, it's offical name is Whitman Park but most don't even know it) Parkside, East (Cramer Hill, Eastside, The Heights) in chaos.
A great website on Camden (one of my favorite subjects) is DVRBS.com ean by a white guy that refuses to leave Eastside. It's a great site on Camden history, facts, and pictures. I learned a lot from his site. Hope it helps your curiosity.
I would get your hands on the 20/20 special if you're looking for stories of poverty, it was really a moving piece. I cried so many times during it.
I would say get in contact with someone at the Rutgers Campus and see why they chose to keep the college there, maybe talk to students about if they feel safe or not leaving campus. That may be an interesting spin.
There is actually someone at work who takes the bus over from Camden, but I would never ask "What's it like to live in Camden?" it would just seem too rude.
I grew up in Cherry Hill, outside Camden, before Cherry Hill got named that phony suburbo name, and when my parents' subdivision was one of the first post-war tract-house developments. Most homeowners were vets and their families or Jewish refugees.
Back then, we used to drive over the (new) Walt Whitman Bridge to South Philly. You'd have to hold your breath because of the smell of mash and yeast from the Old Grandad bourbon factory. There was also Campbell Soup and some other booze and food things. I gather a lot of southern black people and Puerto Ricans moved to Camden during the war for the industry that was there.
Flash forward to my teenage years. I see Camden as an eight-lane highway to the tollbooth to Center City Philly. The Hi-Speed train didn't exist yet, so you could only ride the bus to Camden or Philly. (To this day, the bus is full of black ladies who clean house in Cherry Hill suburbs).
At that time, i think Camden was about 50K people, with no real supermarket or movie theater. Ninety percent single women with kids, almost no one with a decent job (or any job).
Planned Parenthood was there. We suburbo girls had to go into the Puerto Rican neighborhood for birth control and men would hang out their windows and cars and yell at us because they know why white girls were there at all. PP was full of very young women/girls of color, many young kids with them, many pregnancies.
Leaving Camden, over Rt. 70, you'd get to what seemed like a normal economic area, modest housing, small business, the only Chinese restaurant around (Lem's Tea House. And does anyone remember the Latin Casino, the hubba-hubba nightclub in the area? As an adult, I went there to see Ray Charles. The tablecloths were threadbare and the waitresses sounded like diner gals "Whaddya want, honey?")
My father still lives there, in the only trailer park in Cherry Hill- behind the former Rickshaw Inn. It really is close to being an urban area near suburbs. He can walk to the train (the Gamblers' Express) to go to Atlantic City or walk to stores. There is little crime despite being so close to Camden (I guess you'd need enough money to keep a car on the road to drive down Rt. 70 to do crimes). Of course, we have to forget about Rabbi Neulander, who was something of an outlier for taking out a hit on his wife and getting caught.
I left south Jersey at 18 and never looked back. Of course, now it's completely different- quite sophisticated and an easy run into Philadelphia.
Thanks for asking.
The reason why Camden is off the hook is because of the drugs that were purposely brought in the destroy the community. The distributors from Cherry Hill and places the like are responsible. Cherry Hill got it going on because of the drug money from places like Camden. What goes around comes around and everyone has to pay. The people who are responsible for saturating our inner cities with these deadly addictive destructive drugs will pay and many of them are paying already...their children are off the hook, the lives are miserable, they are ill, and so forth and so on. Everyone pays for what they do, there are no exceptions.
You really feel sorry for the young man in this video because you realize hes the only one who seems to care adrift in a sea of apathy and crime.....as he states prostitution and crack sales are rampant.....within a block of the school......police could stop this if they wanted to but apparently they don't....parents of children who attend the school could stop this if they wanted to but apparently they don't......unfortunately for this young man who cares those that live around him don't care and seem quite content to live in a world they allow to exist.
I live next to Camden in Collingswood..and the apartment complex is full of Mod cut with Section 8 vouchers. Ugh. Mod cut Hate not feeling safe but not being allowed to say anything. Moderator cut: Language
Last edited by bmwguydc; 02-27-2010 at 08:45 PM..
Reason: Language
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