Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
So, my question is why do some jobs deserve pensions and others don't? As a social worker, I'm not protected and guaranteed health insurance and a pension. The average joe working an average job doesn't get protection either....why do school teachers get such protection?
I want this to be a healthy debate and no trolling or crazy talk. I try to stay away from politics in my personal life so I'm using this forum to debate!
The answer is quite simple: UNIONS. The teachers Union is one of the strongest and they give GENEROUSLY to the Democrats. I am not anti-union; I am merely stating a fact.
If I'm anti-anything, it's the elected officials (state & federal - Dem & Rep) who are permitted to blatantly "re-pay" huge campaign contributors by granting their every wish. IT SHOULD BE ILLEGAL - b/c in all actuality - IT'S A BRIBE!!
Deserve. Don't deserve. Does it really matter when there will be no mony to pay it out? Does it suck that people were promised something that some of them won't get? Sure. Just like the employees of Enron who had their retirement fund wiped out. Life sucks and isn't fair.
they only had their retirement fund wiped out if it was all in one basket, enron stock. financial advisors for decades have warned people about doing this. yet it still happens at many companies. companies give stock to employees as a benefit. my dad's company does it, so does my wife's. each year, depending on the value of the stock, we sell some of it, and distribute it diversely into other investments.
if enron employees had any pensions or 401k accounts, they still have it.
they only had their retirement fund wiped out if it was all in one basket, enron stock. financial advisors for decades have warned people about doing this. yet it still happens at many companies. companies give stock to employees as a benefit. my dad's company does it, so does my wife's. each year, depending on the value of the stock, we sell some of it, and distribute it diversely into other investments.
if enron employees had any pensions or 401k accounts, they still have it.
401Ks haven't been decimated?
The assumption for the pension funds was that they would grow by 8-10% a year or something like that. Didn't happen. That's part of the problem now.
Same thing happened to 401Ks in the private sector. Lots of people retiring now who don't have the amount they counted on. No one is going to bail them out though.
The assumption for the pension funds was that they would grow by 8-10% a year or something like that. Didn't happen. That's part of the problem now.
Same thing happened to 401Ks in the private sector. Lots of people retiring now who don't have the amount they counted on. No one is going to bail them out though.
i was speaking specifically about the Enron employees comment above. 401ks were only decimated for people who were too greatly into stock allocations for their age. it's well known that people don't manage their 401ks well enough.
i think you interpreted my comment to be addressing far more than it was. Enron employees retirement was wrecked because their retirement was Enron stock. if they had been selling off Enron stock and allocating the money in a diverse manner, they wouldn't be so horribly off. the thing about having your retirement funds being in mostly your company is...your entire life relies on the success of that company...employment, retirement. if it gets bad...you're in deep trouble.
saving for retirement is all about diversity. if someone was within 5 years of retirement even before 2007, and lost 30-40% of their 401k....they had WAY too much in stock for being that close to retirement. the good news is...they still have time for it to recover during retirement if they don't panic. but this is an entirely different issue.
they only had their retirement fund wiped out if it was all in one basket, enron stock. financial advisors for decades have warned people about doing this. yet it still happens at many companies. companies give stock to employees as a benefit. my dad's company does it, so does my wife's. each year, depending on the value of the stock, we sell some of it, and distribute it diversely into other investments.
if enron employees had any pensions or 401k accounts, they still have it.
They had no choice on some of that.
Enron workers found themselves over-exposed to Enron stock because the company matched employee contributions to pension plans with Enron stock.
I'm sorry that my intent of my comment evaded you.
The thread was about teachers and their pension rights, not about other professions.
Perhaps we can discuss those other professions in threads that are relevant to them.
Now, now little Johnny, don't go interupting teachers lesson by introducing logic and contrarian views. Please just focus on what I choose to talk about as there will be a quiz on Thursday.
Enron workers found themselves over-exposed to Enron stock because the company matched employee contributions to pension plans with Enron stock.
you're right. didn't realize that. i forgot that they changed the rules on this because of enron. but...it would be foolish for an employee to be relying on that pension as safe if it was all invested in company stock. that's not a very valuable benefit they were offered. creative on enron's part though!
In the corporate world, benefits are a bonus. They can promise them when you are hired and take them back at any time unless you have a specific contract, which is usually for the people who are officers of the company. They can change their pension, as many large companies have done in recent years, from a traditional pension to a 401K type. They don't HAVE to give you anything. They can give you health benefits and increase your contribution any time. They can promise you health benefits for your retirement and cancel them or raise your contribution as much as they want. No one is guaranteed anything anymore, and most people find it offensive that they have to pay for cadillac benefits for teachers and they have no pension and high health insurance costs.
I have two friends in NJ, retired school teachers, who paid NOTHING towards their health benefits for themselves or their spouses. They complained when the co-pay went up $5.
Believe me - I know how the corporate world works. But teachers, police, firemen, etc. are hired with contracts.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
