Best Hospitals for having a baby in Northern, New Jersey (Camden: school, under 21)
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I would go with Valley Hospital next time I have a child. The holistic birth program sounds interesting.
I delivered my first via section at Hackensack while it's a nice hospital I got bombarded with bills when I came back home. And this despite having health insurance! One bill included over $1k for the epidural. Another bill was in the amount of $20 for 3 night of cable service! :P My total bill for the delivery was over 30k for a 3 day stay, thank gawd I had insurance!
FWIW, the 3 NJ hospitals mentioned - St. Barnabas, Valley and Hackensack all have high csection rates. Valley is lowest at 46% while the other two are closer to 50%. There's absolutely no reason why the rate should be that high even accounting for the increase in csections for multiple births...
Deliverying babies (esp. via csection) is apparently a profitable business so pick your choice wisely!
ours was around $30k also, but that's what is initially billed to insurance. i think they actually ended up charging less than half that based on the "agreed upon rates".
why is there "absolutely no reason why the rate should be that high"? i just don't get that statement. you know about each individual c-section that occurred at the 3 hospitals, and in your expert opinion, many were not necessary?
Of course not all c-sections are bad!!! When used appropriately, c-sections can be lifesaving for both mom and baby. Thank heavens we have them available when necessary. But not at a rate of 50%. At that point, we are doing nothing more than endangering the lives of women.
Think about it. St Barnabas and it's sister hospital Monmouth Medical Center both have level III NICUs and handle high risk births. St B's has a c-section rate of nearly 50% and Monmouth has a c-section rate of 25%. Why the disparity? Do north Jersey women really have smaller pelvises? Do their babies go into distress more often?
Brady ~ do you really believe your wife would have not been able to push a baby out? Have women really evolved into a race that cannot physically push babies out anymore? For reference purposes, the c-section rate in 1970 was 5%. Don't tell me that women and babies used to die all the time in childbirth. Yes, they died a lot more often but not usually because a c-section couldn't be done. They died due to infections which we prevent/cure with hand sanitation and antibiotics. You also mentioned the baby having desats. What were the baby's apgars scores? That's the real answer about baby's well-being.
Of course having a healthy baby and healthy mom are the most important things. I would never deny that and I'm not trying to criticize anyone's individual experience. I wasn't there so I don't know!!! I'm just trying to point out that sometimes it's wise to think about things a little further. Everyone keeps pointing out hospitals with big NICUs. Just as the c-section rate doesn't tell the whole story, neither does the size of the NICU. We need to think about the means by which we got a healthy baby. C-sections are money makers for the hospital and they pretty much ensure that a doctor doesn't get sued (plus they are a time-saver which is great for busy practices). You can't sue when the doctor "did everything he or she could." The question is whether he or she really needed to go to such lengths.... or would a little patience have given the same result?
FWIW, I'm a 2x c-section and 1x vaginal birthing woman. I'd venture to say I understand the issues fairly well. I'd love to write more but my prudently c-sectioned baby wants some attention.
i don't know - tell me what the c-section rate should be at any given hospital? my wife is 5' tall, and petite. our baby boy was 6lbs 5oz, and though he was still technically "dropping", she hadn't progresse d in dilating in over 6 hours, and that was after only progressing 1cm over 4-5 hours prior.
if she chose to continue, which the doctor at that point said she was comfortable with monitoring, if/when it got to that point, her uterus could be too weak (contractions were also abnormally strong and long with very short breaks in between), and that could run the risk of hemorrhage. though the doctor explained this would be extremely unlikely, and she stressed that multiple times, is it really worth risking the mother's life to say you pushed the baby through naturally? and it's much better to decide to have the c-section in a rational calm environment than to have a panic-scenario arise and be rushed into it with more urgency.
i'm not going to argue that c-sections have reduced maternal deaths. i also am aware of the fact that we don't necessarily have the lowest infant mortality rates either. but there are many factors to those stats. the desats were quite informational. knowing that a fetus is not getting enough oxygen at certain times during the delivery is nothing to gloss over.
absolutely look into it more. don't see a c-section rate, high or low, and assume that that is reflective on if/why that hospital performs a lot or a few c-sections. too many variables. plus, this is more about the OB/GYN you picked out, and less about the facility you choose to deliver in.
The NICU and the reputation of the NICU is something one would hope they never have to utilize. But it sure doesn't hurt to be close to a good one, or at least be aware of which hospital has a good one if something changes later in your pregnancy.
the c-section really didn't save the doctor any time. my wife is sitting in a room, on a bed, waiting for a baby to come out. the doctor comes in when it's time to come out. the c-section took over an hour of the doctor's time, where i have friends who delivered in less time than that once the baby was ready to come out. so i don't buy the "moneymaker" and "time saver" arguments. cutting into a woman's body means less risk of lawsuit? that's a pretty amazing statement. one which is unlikely to come from someone who knows much about medical malpractice lawsuits.
i'm glad that you feel well-informed, and you very well could be. but i think some of the statements you make on here are a bit misleading.
trust me, we 150% want the next baby to be vaginal. we were very disappointed the first time. but if my wife had trouble with a 6lb 5oz baby, we're not sure how the next one will go. we will discuss it extensively with the doctor again, and maybe even explore other doctors as options. our current doctor is quite experienced, and is also a professor at a highly rated medical school, so we have little reason to lack confidence in her abilities. and the other doctors in the practice also have pretty outstanding records.
the best one can do is be informed and be prepared for ALL possibilities. and there's nothing wrong with wanting the security blanket of delivering in a hospital with a highly respected NICU.
we had to utilize the NICU 2 months into our son's life. between the ER at Barnabas and the amazing nurses in the NICU, I cannot recommend that hospital strongly enough. we not only witnessed how they handled our son, but how they handled other patients during the couple nights we slept in the NICU room. I could say with confidence that a person is highly unlikely to be disappointed with an experience at St Barnabas for delivery or for NICU services.
That being said - we did have one night nurse that was a little pushy with her way of doing things. Best advice we can give someone is to know what you are comfortable with, and don't let a nurse push you into changing that without speaking to a doctor, no matter how pushy they are.
the c-section really didn't save the doctor any time. my wife is sitting in a room, on a bed, waiting for a baby to come out. the doctor comes in when it's time to come out. the c-section took over an hour of the doctor's time, where i have friends who delivered in less time than that once the baby was ready to come out. so i don't buy the "moneymaker" and "time saver" arguments. cutting into a woman's body means less risk of lawsuit? that's a pretty amazing statement. one which is unlikely to come from someone who knows much about medical malpractice lawsuits.
i'm glad that you feel well-informed, and you very well could be. but i think some of the statements you make on here are a bit misleading.
trust me, we 150% want the next baby to be vaginal. we were very disappointed the first time. but if my wife had trouble with a 6lb 5oz baby, we're not sure how the next one will go. we will discuss it extensively with the doctor again, and maybe even explore other doctors as options. our current doctor is quite experienced, and is also a professor at a highly rated medical school, so we have little reason to lack confidence in her abilities. and the other doctors in the practice also have pretty outstanding records.
the best one can do is be informed and be prepared for ALL possibilities. and there's nothing wrong with wanting the security blanket of delivering in a hospital with a highly respected NICU.
we had to utilize the NICU 2 months into our son's life. between the ER at Barnabas and the amazing nurses in the NICU, I cannot recommend that hospital strongly enough. we not only witnessed how they handled our son, but how they handled other patients during the couple nights we slept in the NICU room. I could say with confidence that a person is highly unlikely to be disappointed with an experience at St Barnabas for delivery or for NICU services.
That being said - we did have one night nurse that was a little pushy with her way of doing things. Best advice we can give someone is to know what you are comfortable with, and don't let a nurse push you into changing that without speaking to a doctor, no matter how pushy they are.
I have worked in the medical field for quite some time. Doctors say over & over again "The only C-section you get sued for is the one you didn't do....." - it is many times a "cover your butt" procedure. As for the money-making aspects, if you have time I believe "The Business of Being Born" movie is now available on Netflix, you might want to take a look at it. It will explain some of these other aspects regarding birth much better than I would be able to. Google the "cascade of interventions" when it comes to childbirth for additional details on how seemingly innocuous interventions lead to more interventions, then finally to C-section.
I just don't agree that this is all the hospitals fault. CDC data says that 31% of women CHOOSE to have a c-section. So the baseline for hospitals is about 30%. Now, if you are choosing to have a c-section chances are you will go to a hospital that does a lot of c-sections. If you are planning not to have a c-section you will look to go to a hospital with a lower c-section rate...it's basically the chicken or the egg argument.
very well said. i think it'd be nice to simply remove the data of women who choose to or "schedule" a c-section almost automatically. that's probably nearly impossible, but it's unfair to say a hospital does, when it may just be reflective of the local population's desires and not of the hospital's practices.
Can you link me to that information please? Also, there is a difference between an "elective" c-section and a "maternal request" c-section. Any c-section that takes place without labor is considered "elective." You could drag a woman kicking and screaming into the OR. But if her labor hasn't started yet, it's elective. A c-section for a breech baby is considered "elective" even though there are only about 3 doctors in this state who might agree to attend a vaginal breech birth. Actually, fewer than 1% of c-sections are done at the mother's request in the absence of a medical reason. Plenty of links about that right here: The Politics of Women's Health - Maternal Request for Cesarean Delivery: Myth or Reality? - Our Bodies Ourselves Most c-sections are done on maternal agreement - the doctor tells her that her baby is too big, her pelvis is too small, she is too fat, she is too old, etc so a c-section is the safer choice. And she agrees. She might prefer a vaginal birth but she assumes that all doctors would tell her the same thing. Few doctors support VBAC so most women just go along with a repeat c-section.
That argument doesn't hold a lot of weight though anyway. Most North Jersey hospitals have a high c-section rate so no matter where you go, they will be doing a lot of c-sections.
icibiu ~ I'm happy for you!!! If that's what you want, I support your decision to have a c-section and all the repeat c-sections you want. My 1st c-section was definitely unnecessary (doctor told me my pelvis was too small). Good thing I didn't believe him. I had the most awesome completely drug free VBAC the 2nd time (not with that doctor, of course). Not frustrating at all! It was MUCH less painful than my c-section. Very few doctors in this state will agree to a VBAC though. It's kind of sad. I don't agree that women are all flocking to a particular hospital for a natural birth and that is what lowers the c-section rate. I don't think most women realize how high the c-section rates; they ask and people will recommend the hospital with the best NICU. Both St B's and Monmouth handle the high risk births. I'd say it has a lot more to do with the attitude and philosophy of the doctors, midwives (if there are any) and staff.
Again, I'm just trying to point out that the NICU is not everything. You need to consider the kind of experience you are looking for and choose a hospital that is most likely to support you. I will also point out that a place like Morristown has a level III NICU, and a high c-section rate but they also have 2 good midwifery groups and a couple doctors with low c-section rates (which makes you wonder how many c-sections the other doctors are doing to bring the c-section rate up so high!!!)
that site you linked to doesn't look like a scientific study. also, anecdotal stating the situations for maternal agreement doesn't make it true. what you said about the doctors and midwives and staff i agree with. but a high rate at a hospital is correlation, which is not the same as causation. i do think people probably overweight and overthink the NICU since it is rare to need to utilize it, but if the hospital is a good hospital and the person has a good doctor, what difference does it make if they also want to be on the site of a good NICU for peace of mind?
I have worked in the medical field for quite some time. Doctors say over & over again "The only C-section you get sued for is the one you didn't do....." - it is many times a "cover your butt" procedure. As for the money-making aspects, if you have time I believe "The Business of Being Born" movie is now available on Netflix, you might want to take a look at it. It will explain some of these other aspects regarding birth much better than I would be able to. Google the "cascade of interventions" when it comes to childbirth for additional details on how seemingly innocuous interventions lead to more interventions, then finally to C-section.
and i have family in the field, and they don't say that. one of the riskiest things in medicine is cutting into someone. so many things can go wrong. so while an anecdotal story is nice, i'll take the personal experience of friends and families in the field as well as friends who practice medical malpractice law.
i saw the business of being born. i think it was a pretty well-put together documentary, but it also had some biases in it. take it with a grain of salt, but i would also recommend watching it.
as for the cascade of interventions, i am aware. the biggest thing for me to be aware of is the drugs used to induce. i believe that, aside from some exception cases, the body will know when it's time. i think that some nurses at hospitals with high or low rates are a bit too quick to go to the artificial oxytocin. but again, correlation is not causation. you can draw some conclusions about this, but you can't say it's cause and effect without scientific study, preferably peer-reviewed.
as for interfering with the "normal physiology of birth", let's recognize that while medicine isn't always perfect, we enjoy longer life expectancies, few maternal deaths, and fewer infant deaths because of it. we're also capable of delivering babies premature to a level not possible 30-40 years ago due to medicine.
and i have family in the field, and they don't say that. one of the riskiest things in medicine is cutting into someone. so many things can go wrong. so while an anecdotal story is nice, i'll take the personal experience of friends and families in the field as well as friends who practice medical malpractice law.
i saw the business of being born. i think it was a pretty well-put together documentary, but it also had some biases in it. take it with a grain of salt, but i would also recommend watching it.
as for the cascade of interventions, i am aware. the biggest thing for me to be aware of is the drugs used to induce. i believe that, aside from some exception cases, the body will know when it's time. i think that some nurses at hospitals with high or low rates are a bit too quick to go to the artificial oxytocin. but again, correlation is not causation. you can draw some conclusions about this, but you can't say it's cause and effect without scientific study, preferably peer-reviewed.
as for interfering with the "normal physiology of birth", let's recognize that while medicine isn't always perfect, we enjoy longer life expectancies, few maternal deaths, and fewer infant deaths because of it. we're also capable of delivering babies premature to a level not possible 30-40 years ago due to medicine.
my c-section is a vague memory and I have a hard time getting riled up in this discussion either way (surprising for me!)! all i know is I have healthy boys and whatever method they came out, it's all good.
my c-section is a vague memory and I have a hard time getting riled up in this discussion either way (surprising for me!)! all i know is I have healthy boys and whatever method they came out, it's all good.
exactly. sorry to seem riled up. i'm not disagreeing with folks that think you should try to avoid all the business of the medical industry, i just think that some people push this idea a bit too far, and leave out some information. it's good to know that a hospital's c-section rate is 50%. but that doesn't tell you anything about the hospital and it's intent for deliveries. people skew statistics in so many ways, and it annoys me.
exactly. sorry to seem riled up. i'm not disagreeing with folks that think you should try to avoid all the business of the medical industry, i just think that some people push this idea a bit too far, and leave out some information. it's good to know that a hospital's c-section rate is 50%. but that doesn't tell you anything about the hospital and it's intent for deliveries. people skew statistics in so many ways, and it annoys me.
you're not riled up. my comment wasn't directed at you either, i just happened to quote you. i actually agree with your position!
having older kids (13, so not old, but...) i look back and laugh at stuff that seemed SOOOOOOOO important back then (bottle/breast, SAH/WOH, co-sleeping/crib, CIO or not) but really, don't matter one whit. Being a good parent who instills morals and provides guidance and love is what really counts.
of course, stuff that seems earth shattering to me today as a mom to 13 year olds will be laughed at by a mom who has kids in their 20's.
you're not riled up. my comment wasn't directed at you either, i just happened to quote you. i actually agree with your position!
having older kids (13, so not old, but...) i look back and laugh at stuff that seemed SOOOOOOOO important back then (bottle/breast, SAH/WOH, co-sleeping/crib, CIO or not) but really, don't matter one whit. Being a good parent who instills morals and provides guidance and love is what really counts.
of course, stuff that seems earth shattering to me today as a mom to 13 year olds will be laughed at by a mom who has kids in their 20's.
yeah. we don't get wrapped up in those things with our son. here you go, for your enjoyment:
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