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Location: Splitting time between Dayton, NJ and Needmore, PA
1,184 posts, read 4,045,528 times
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EBWick,
Both examples you give are not so much the inherent danger of guns, but the incredible stupidity of both the gun owner and the spouse. If you know a dangerous item is located in the house, not learning about its proper use and management is not an excuse. Once you are above the age of 16, yes 16, you should have the sense to learn about these items. Francis Bacon, Sr. was absolutely correct when he stated, "Knowledge is power."
How many homes have circular saws, reciprocating saws, electric drills, etc.? How many homes have hammers, nails, screw drivers? How many have knives of some type for either preparing or eating food? All of these items are just as dangerous in the hands of someone who doesn't know how to use them as are guns. Yet, men and women alike all take the time to learn how to use them. Why is a gun so different? Because most people hear the word gun and equate it with killing. Why? Because for the last 75+ years, our so-called education system and media types have been indoctrinating us to pre-conceive these thoughts. Thankfully there are still enough people in the world who have a mind and are not afraid to use it to challenge such pre-conceived notions and come to a fuller understanding of the world around us.
Frankly, we could use the same argument (it's inherently dangerous) about any object or item when a person has not been trained in how to use it appropriately. (Cars, computers, the Internet, scissors, razors, prescribed medicines, the list goes on.) The reality is, it is the responsibility of the adults in the family to be knowledgeable about the object and to
1) properly secure the item,
2) take time to educate those who may come into contact with the item within their household.
Ultimately, it is about personal responsibility, something the nanny-staters like The One and Bloomberg would take away from us under the guise of "protecting us from harm."
So do you personally know more people who have experienced gun accidents or have used a gun to defend their homes?
Actually, I know no one that fits that category. I do know several that used them to kill family members for one reason or another. I also personally know of several incidents of accidental discharges resulting in injuries.
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Based on the fact that you are a responsible gun owner and enthusiast, what do you see as the solution to the as you call them "gunslingers"? The people who purchase weapons and do not follow any of the common sense guidelines for the storage and care of the weapon, nor do they take the time to properly learn how to use it.
We make training available at a relatively inexpensive rate. For the cost of two boxes of ammo, new owners, or even experienced ones can take one of our 16 hour classes that unlike many provided by commercial locations involved more time on the range. I have more respect for a totally unknowing firearm's owner that will seek out this training in an attempt to become a responsible owner than the guy with the huge collection and zero experience. Then you have those that claim competence because they are always at the range. Many of those simply bring a hundred rounds, load up the magazines to max capacity and fire at the nice paper target. What they prove is that they have the dexterity in their trigger fire to fire the handgun. If round court is the sole determination of competency, I know a few guys that do testing all day, all week. they should be the best on the planet.
Case in point, the Massachusetts Full Auto incident. The owner of the firearm was foolish. While the father allowed the child to fire the weapon, he I'm guessing was not as familiar. Few every get the chance to experience full auto. It's not like on TV. In this case the Mini-Uzi is one of the more difficult firearm's to control. the owner should have known this and never put it on the line. It should have had only a few rounds at best in the magazine. Firing one years ago, it's a handful for one experienced in the handling. The media value overrode the common sense. All unintentional but still resulting in the death of the child. Yet I blame those who organized and not the firearm. FA or SA a tragic result could have happened.
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Once you are above the age of 16, yes 16, you should have the sense to learn about these items
In that I disagree. I was fortunate enough at an age younger than that to have a great instructor, a former Marine who along with the police department in Secaucus to provide training in firearms. The town also had a active and community minded gun club that assisted. We were taught safety and the basics of firearm's use and developed enough talent to attend local competitions. Quite frankly it had a big part in determining my future career. It's because of what I owe all those person (sadly most are now gone) that I try to give back to area kids through activities at my local gun club. It's actually a ,lot of fun to help younger shooters develop good habits and a desire to learn. Having a great facility and equipment makes it easy.
As far as the comments concerning the NRA, I have been a vocal critic at time of some of their activities. I've also been a member for many years. While most see only one side of them, it's through grants from the NRA that we have had the ability to purchase much of the equipment used in the activities. Currently we have over 70 kids enrolled in our 4-H program. Twice a month these kids come in a shoot small caliber rifles and handguns, archery outdoor activities and overnight camping. True they get training in the use of these items but the vast majority of these kids also develop a great attitude and are a pleasure to be around. That in itself is worth the time. Plus at their age, some as young as 12 they have respect and training to a safety be around firearms. In some cases more than their parents.
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Funny how I can legally buy or build a grenade with the NFA tax stamp but not have a machinegun.
Well then you apparently don't know the laws in Vermont. Class 3 is legal with the tax stamp you speak of.
In Vermont you can own the following items that are regulated the the National Firearms Act
Machine Guns Any Other Weapon (AOW)
Destructive Devices (DD)
Short Barreled Shotguns (SBS)
Short Barreled Rifles (SBR)
I am far from a gun nut, I personally do not enjoy firing a gun. It is loud, powerful, and a pain in the posterior to clean afterwards. I do however, like knowing that if anyone broke into my house and intended to harm my kids or wife I would be able to protect them. It is all about having a plan...and also, say a cataclysmic event occurs and there is lawlessness and looting. At least I know I wont be a sitting duck.
How many homes have circular saws, reciprocating saws, electric drills, etc.? How many homes have hammers, nails, screw drivers? How many have knives of some type for either preparing or eating food? All of these items are just as dangerous in the hands of someone who doesn't know how to use them as are guns.
I'll call you when I read about a 12 yr. old hammering his thumb to death.
Location: Splitting time between Dayton, NJ and Needmore, PA
1,184 posts, read 4,045,528 times
Reputation: 767
Quote:
Originally Posted by rscalzo
In that I disagree. I was fortunate enough at an age younger than that to have a great instructor, a former Marine who along with the police department in Secaucus to provide training in firearms. The town also had a active and community minded gun club that assisted. We were taught safety and the basics of firearm's use and developed enough talent to attend local competitions. Quite frankly it had a big part in determining my future career. It's because of what I owe all those person (sadly most are now gone) that I try to give back to area kids through activities at my local gun club. It's actually a ,lot of fun to help younger shooters develop good habits and a desire to learn. Having a great facility and equipment makes it easy.
As far as the comments concerning the NRA, I have been a vocal critic at time of some of their activities. I've also been a member for many years. While most see only one side of them, it's through grants from the NRA that we have had the ability to purchase much of the equipment used in the activities. Currently we have over 70 kids enrolled in our 4-H program. Twice a month these kids come in a shoot small caliber rifles and handguns, archery outdoor activities and overnight camping. True they get training in the use of these items but the vast majority of these kids also develop a great attitude and are a pleasure to be around. That in itself is worth the time. Plus at their age, some as young as 12 they have respect and training to a safety be around firearms. In some cases more than their parents.
Fair observation. I do see the value of training children younger than 16. In looking at my post, I see that was not made clear and should have been. I have heard of the grants by the NRA for youth training. I also am aware most states still provide a hunting license for younger hunters when accompanied by adults. This is a wonderful opportunity for families to work together with children learning finer points of hunting and appropriate gun use.
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Originally Posted by EBWick
I'll call you when I read about a 12 yr. old hammering his thumb to death.
Your analogy doesn't even make sense relative to what we are talking about. Fail.
It is loud, powerful, and a pain in the posterior to clean afterwards.
Which is why we start out new shooters with 22 revolvers.
Loud and powerful... That's one of the biggest issues we have with gun shops that hire these clueless sales people. They sell new shooters totally improper firearms. After a few shots, they are afraid of it and yet can't put a round withing ten feet of their target. So they put it away and never touch it again possibly relying on it for defense. A false sense of security. One does not put down a few dollars and become competent with a firearm overnight. One reason a selection phase is used to allow the testing of forty or so different handguns from low to high , all shapes and sizes.
Then the legal and other aspects of firearm's use are taught. That in itself is more important than the use itself. It's amazing how little some know on the subject and the falsies out these. Worth the price is one of the top attorneys who speaks for over two hours of the reality of the subject and the aftermath. Even I learned from that one. If nothing else her statement of avoid the situation at all costs made a lot of sense. Those looking (or at least when behind a keyboard) to be involved in a incident are crazy are best. They have no idea what awaits them.
Your analogy doesn't even make sense relative to what we are talking about. Fail.
You made the ridiculous comparison of children knowing how to handle deadly weapons to handling common household items like hammers & saws. Do you even have kids and know the stupid things that even the "good ones" can do? The kids in my example were "good kids" and one even had gun training. It didn't matter in the end, did it?
Having guns in the home means more death, usually for members of that household. It's indisputable.
Odd because up here that isn't the case. In fact almost unheard of..
But that's like saying you personally know nobody who's died of lung cancer.
Having a gun at home not only increases the risk of harm to one's self and family, but also carries high costs to society, concludes an article in the February Southern Medical Journal, official journal of the Southern Medical Association. The journal is published by Lippincott Williams & Wilkins, a part of Wolters Kluwer Health, a leading provider of information and business intelligence for students, professionals, and institutions in medicine, nursing, allied health, and pharmacy.
Based on a review of the available scientific data, Dr. Lippmann and co-authors conclude that the dangers of having a gun at home far outweigh the safety benefits. Research shows that access to guns greatly increases the risk of death and firearm-related violence. A gun in the home is twelve times more likely to result in the death of a household member or visitor than an intruder.
The most common cause of deaths occurring at homes where guns are present, by far, is suicide. Many of these self-inflicted gunshot wounds appear to be impulsive acts by people without previous evidence of mental illness. Guns in the home are also associated with a fivefold increase in the rate of intimate partner homicide, as well as an increased risk of injuries and death to children...
...Dr. Lippmann and colleagues cite research showing the massive economic consequences of firearm violence. Medical care for gunshot victims in the United States is up to $4 billion per year. Including indirect costs such as disability and unemployment, the costs may total up to $100 billion. In the authors' city of Louisville, expenses for uninsured gun-injury victims alone exceed the money allotted for indigent medical care costs for the entire community.
"Taxpayers often bear a large percentage of these financial burdens," according to the authors. Other costs show up in the form of increased insurance premiums. Gun violence costs the U.S. criminal justice system approximately $2.4 billion per year—nearly equal to all other crimes put together.
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