Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Your point about NYC and Hong Kong are good for cities but not for states. Both of them have a larger state or nation to back them.
But what actually happens is the opposite. Hong Kong and NYC (and NYC's suburbs) actually bring in a ton of money for the surrounding country and state respectively. You've got it backwards: NYC doesn't need New York state. New York state needs NYC.
Wilderness, for the most part, doesn't make as much money as urbanized areas. The high ratio of urban to rural is what will keep NJ as a top income state for years to come assuming the government doesn't screw it up by overtaxing. Taxes and regulations "killing the golden goose" is probably the greatest threat to NJ's future prosperity.
And I think you're wrong about NJ not having room to grow. When you can't build out, you build up. As urban areas in the state continue to gentrify, more high-rises will be built and population density will go up.
Quote:
We don't have nearly the amount of available land as those states. Look at NY - NY Ciity and Buffalo both blow away any NJ city plus you can fit all NJ in the adirondacks from Albany to the Canada border, and that is mostly wilderness for NY State. They have the catskill watershed areas they control all the water for NY city, their own state's city. Then PA has two huge cities Philly and Pitt. They have tons of land between philly and pitt, you could take 2 NJ's and lay them sideways and stack them and put them in between Philly and Pitt.
And the "tons of land" outside Philly, Pittsburgh, and NYC is poorer than the cities and contributes less to their respective states economies. The fact that NJ doesn't have the poorer rural areas is an edge, not a burden.
I assume you are from North Jersey. Cause down in South part of the state farming is alive and well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KellyKdros
I'm not talking about because of the election or because of taxes or anything like that.
I am talking about that because we are such a tiny state that even if somehow magically taxes were lowered (and that won't happen cuz we have such densely populated towns that need lots of services) the home prices will still remain the highest in the country.
We have little natural resource or farmland/agriculture.
When I have traveled in our country I see how most states are so big and vast with so much room to grow, so much natural resources, so much land that is farmable, they could grow a whole New Jersey within their state and still have plenty of open land left over.
That's why land and housing in NJ is expensive but it's cheap in other states.
What do you think this means for NJ's future? I think it means our state's future is dependent on how well NY and Philly do economically, how educated our people are and how many tech and pharma and other such fields that require high educations we can keep here. NJ's best resource is our people and educations.
NJ is so crowded that we can't even promote tourism too much because people from NJ already crowd out our shore and other tourist spots. Most out of state people come from NY or PA.
I think if NJ loses the quality of education and educated people then we have nothing to fall back on.
I think people in NJ are too educated, educated to a point where they're mentally paralyzed to solve the most basic problems.
Being a Jerseyan who has lived in NY, PA, TX, NV, and AZ, I have to agree wholeheartedly with you! By contrast with many folks in PA, TX, NV, and AZ, I'd have to say that Jerseyans are often lacking in common sense and a connection with the land and are myopic with respect to other ways of living, being, and doing.
It helps, at least it did for me, to spend some time out of Dodge and gain a broader perspective. Also, people have to be willing to expend some some effort changing things at the LOCAL level. Yes, yes, we're all busy. Hey, I'm the sole caretaker of my adult brother with Down syndrome, and I have to earn a living and do everything by myself. In fact, I "live for two," if you catch my meaning. If I can make the time to be engaged in such things, so can most other people.
As for taxes in NJ, they're mainly to line the pockets of corrupt politicians, recipients of no-show jobs, nepotists, and other thieves. If the tax dollars ALL went to where they're supposed to go, there'd be no need to raise taxes and perhaps even in many instances to lower them. I think some major audits of the NJ State Legislature are in order, as are audits of Medicare and Medicaid in NJ. Not to mention that this would be a good time to expose and disband groups such as ACORN and its many subsidiaries. Any govt official, elected or otherwise, who has clean hands would not dare be associated with or help to fund these filthily corrupt groups.
Even in bad times people will be attracted to live in NJ to be close to beaches, NYC and Philly.
To me, it's the population density of the state that makes it oppressive outside of the rural areas. A certain amount of "personal space" and the ability to step outside one's door and directly onto the land is what makes less-populated places appealing to many.
I agree with C2Cfan. I love NJ and all of it's ways but the lack of space gets to be harrowing at times. Central jersey is the best of both worlds in my opinion. You get the spaceiness of the ruralish feel, but you're close enough to NYC to be able to sho and work for a decent pay (if you can find a job haha).
You're right we do have the biggest port on the east coast which is a big plus for NJ. But wouldn't one of the Southern states be able to build a port as big or bigger and then cut into our business there?
As for separation of economics and government, I don't know why you think I was suggesting any such thing. I don't believe they can or should be separated and I despise Ayn Rand, I think she was a bonehead who was full of herself. She used her celebrity to push her ideas much like a lot of these liberal Hollywood actors do today, and I don't respect it when they do it either even if I might agree with them.
My brother has done business with gov't leaders in some of the southern states and believe me, most are not going to be building any new ports anytime soon. In fact, my brother says a study was done that showed Georgia's port is not being utilized nearly as well as it could be, but instead of investing to upgrade it and thereby reaping more economic benefits, the leaders of our state told him that since investing on the port would cost money, they won't do it. The "low taxes no matter what" mentality is crippling us. We can't even find the money to invest in a project that would help our state grow in the future. If you take Atlanta out of GA, the state has nothing at all to support it. ATL is Georgia's economy, and for the record, GA is not growing now. We are in deep trouble and predictions are we will be among the last states to emerge from the recession.
I have to disagree with the statement that NJ's future will be bleak. Again, in the course of his job, my brother has studied the economic contribution of various states and regions in the US. The Northeast US is the powerhouse of our nation. The south was fueled by growth and construction, but the bottom has dropped out of that basket now and we had all of our eggs in it. FL, GA, SC are in deep trouble now. Many southern states have no real business or industry base to rely on. The small manufacturing base that we did have in GA is gone. Numerous factories have closed (ie textiles, carpet mills, etc) and will never return. Higher education is also in decline here. We have seen massive spending cuts at tech colleges, as well as state universities. (even for programs such as nursing)
College educated people who flee NJ for states like FL in search of jobs are in for a shock. (I lived there for 30+ years) Wages are extremely low and as the saying goes, they do "pay you in sunshine." Cost of living is not that low and crime is through the roof, even in the suburbs.
My point is that no one should sell a state like NJ short. Every state has its share of negatives, but compared to many other states in the US, NJ has a lot going for it.
I agree with C2Cfan. I love NJ and all of it's ways but the lack of space gets to be harrowing at times. Central jersey is the best of both worlds in my opinion. You get the spaceiness of the ruralish feel, but you're close enough to NYC to be able to sho and work for a decent pay (if you can find a job haha).
YES! Central Jersey all the way. And, for me, being near the ocean gives one that feeling of an endless expanse.
... In fact, my brother says a study was done that showed Georgia's port is not being utilized nearly as well as it could be, but instead of investing to upgrade it and thereby reaping more economic benefits, the leaders of our state told him that since investing on the port would cost money, they won't do it. The "low taxes no matter what" mentality is crippling us....
I ask this question sincerely, without an ounce of sarcasm or snarkiness: Does it always have to be a tax investment that gets something going? Could not an enterprising private company invest in upgrading and then utilizing the ports?
BTW, where in the state are you? I love Savannah. The weeping willows are to die for! Yummy food, SCAD, and the very polite people--not to mention those parks set off in a series of squares--make the city a delight. Salt marshes are neat, too.
Anyway, good luck to GA! It's a state I find dear, and I hope for the best for it and its residents.
I ask this question sincerely, without an ounce of sarcasm or snarkiness: Does it always have to be a tax investment that gets something going? Could not an enterprising private company invest in upgrading and then utilizing the ports?
BTW, where in the state are you? I love Savannah. The weeping willows are to die for! Yummy food, SCAD, and the very polite people--not to mention those parks set off in a series of squares--make the city a delight. Salt marshes are neat, too.
Anyway, good luck to GA! It's a state I find dear, and I hope for the best for it and its residents.
I hope they get water one day.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
