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No it does not. harlem has a lot of landmarks. And dont forget the most important thing of all, harlem is in manhattan. I have been to the bronx a few times years ago. Once had a job interview around yankee staduim and that area was so bad it made east ny, bushwich and brownville look like bevelry hills.
As far as SanMan and HeightsChick, you're painting the Bronx with a very broad brush. The Bronx has so many different neighborhoods -- and some great architecture to boot. It wasn't all burnt down/abandoned in the 60s. Go around Mosholu Parkway, Pelham Parkway tell me those aren't green and beautiful areas. Everyone knows Grand Concourse has great architecture, but even Bedford Park Blvd. here is the same style. I love it.
I agree, garbageman and the Hieghtsbabe are coating the bronx with a bad name just as bad as ex washington hieghts residents who coated west bronx with thier ad3 and ddp gangs and giving the bronx a bad reputation again. Bronx has great art deco architecture along the Grand Concourse and also along pelham parkway and Parkchester. Even in the south Bronx there is much history like they guy who built the Lincoln Memorial lived Mott Haven, or Lewis Morris who signed the Decleration of Independence lived in Mott Haven and his church on St Anns avenue still exist today where he lies. Mott Haven has been up coming around lately but things slowed due to the economic crisis. If you guys really want to see the real south Bronx I suggest not to visit Mott Haven or Concourse but visit Morrisania, thats where much of the Bronx poverty exist with vacant lots still visible. I live in Mott Haven and as of recently many poor blacks from harlem and hipsters from harlem and Astoria are crossing over from bridges both got priced out. My fear is when Mott Haven is finished gentrifing many poor blacks and Mexicans will have to go further north to Morrisania and call it home. Same goes for University hieghts with all those Dominicans who used to call washington hieghts home. Morrisania and east tremont might become a dumping grown for the cities poor and undesiable right in the heart of the Bronx. For those that want to invest in the South Bronx get it while its still cheap before prices shoot up again.
I am sorry but you are in a dream world. If you own anything in the south bronx I believe you made a bad investment especially in this market. The best place to buy real estate is in manhattan and then brooklyn and then queens and then maybe the bronx.
In this economic clout it isnt safe to make an investment any where these days. It really depends on luck and every investment is a guaranteed risk. People thought just by owning an house they will become rich because a house a condo or even coop generates revenue for them, but look at these people now with all these forclosures. I know a guy who bought a house in Astoria rented out to some white out of town hippies for some years and now the house is for forclosure.
100% true! Subsidized housing is KILLING the Bronx and preventing it from prospering! Mayor Bloomberg, President Diaz...are you listening? Can you guys PLEASE do something about this? We need your help!
Lol did subsidize housing kill the LES. Lower east side has the highest concentration of Housing projects in Manhattan and rest of the city and guess what LES still gentrified and now its the hippest coolest place to live now making LES very prosperous. Its all about marketing my friend. Mott Haven has the highest concentration of subsidize housing in the Bronx but hey Mott Haven is still gentrifying, real estate brokers try to make a buck on anything these days!
Brooklyn still has bad parts, which have not gentrified. Bushwick and Bed-Stuy are both not far from Downtown and still have not been gentrified much. The Bronx is in a similar situation. I'd say that most people displaced from other gentrifying neighborhoods move to The Bronx. Middle Income families, that are new to The Bronx are few in numbers.
The Bronx (The whole borough,not just the South Bronx) has 30% of its residents living below the poverty line. The median income is around $30,000.
Morrisania for example, is a community in The South Bronx. The average income there is $19,617 which is very little money especially in NYC. With such a low income for most residents it must mean that most are on some sort of government assistance.
My reference to Brooklyn being gentrified is in response to your statement "Part of the reason Harlem gentrified is because it's in Manhattan" which is only to prove that Harlem being gentrified has more to do with close proximity to the midtown rather than being in Manhattan just like all the Brooklyn neighborhoods that have been gentrified. If we want to get into Brooklyn neighborhoods specifically that's another thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHeight$Babe
Morrisania for example, is a community in The South Bronx. The average income there is $19,617 which is very little money especially in NYC. With such a low income for most residents it must mean that most are on some sort of government assistance.
We can assume any conclusion we want based on the stats that you've posted. If you post those stats you should also post the reasoning and methodology used to derive those numbers. The facts behind those numbers are the larger portion of the population in the area is made up of children who do not work and therefore cannot contribute to the economy. There is also a large amount of long time senior residents who do not work as well.
And no one is disputing that there's an ample amount of low income residents in Bronx as there are in the many other neighborhoods and outer boroughs. But the fact of the matter is the money is being invested to revitalize the South Bronx and it will happen just like in Harlem, and the Brooklyn neighborhoods. There’s no difference.
While I agree that the South Bronx has a high concentration of housing projects and subsidized housing in general, the area overall is most similar to the LES and East Harlem regarding density of housing projects, overall housing stock, low-income ethnic population, and crime issues. And we know what happened to the LES, we know what is happening to East Harlem, but those outside of the Bronx (and within it for that matter) have NO idea what is or isn't happening in the Southern Bronx.
With the South Bronx having sold loft condos for $795,000 (Bronx Bricks condos), selling 2 family townhomes for $799,999 (with ground floor commercial space), and "regular" 2 bedroom condos selling for $200,000+..who do you think is buying? You can choose to list all the reasons why communities will never change, but as many longtime residents of NYC understand, expect the unexpected and things do change.
If anyone would like to actually SEE what is and isn't happening in the Southern Bronx, I would be happy to personally show them and tour them through the area. You can SEE for yourself, or you can read the papers or listen to people's anecdotal opinions. I know what is happening ...and the middle and working class are in fact pouring in...and the city is investing billions to reposition the area to the working/middle class with the amenities/housing/transportation/services to support the growing population.
While I agree that the South Bronx has a high concentration of housing projects and subsidized housing in general, the area overall is most similar to the LES and East Harlem regarding density of housing projects, overall housing stock, low-income ethnic population, and crime issues. And we know what happened to the LES, we know what is happening to East Harlem, but those outside of the Bronx (and within it for that matter) have NO idea what is or isn't happening in the Southern Bronx.
With the South Bronx having sold loft condos for $795,000 (Bronx Bricks condos), selling 2 family townhomes for $799,999 (with ground floor commercial space), and "regular" 2 bedroom condos selling for $200,000+..who do you think is buying? You can choose to list all the reasons why communities will never change, but as many longtime residents of NYC understand, expect the unexpected and things do change.
If anyone would like to actually SEE what is and isn't happening in the Southern Bronx, I would be happy to personally show them and tour them through the area. You can SEE for yourself, or you can read the papers or listen to people's anecdotal opinions. I know what is happening ...and the middle and working class are in fact pouring in...and the city is investing billions to reposition the area to the working/middle class with the amenities/housing/transportation/services to support the growing population.
If Bloomberg and Diaz can't do anything, what's left is for all Bronx landlords to form an association where we can gather and come up with a game plan on how to blacklist section 8/program people in order to reach our goal of cleansing the Bronx.
Since landlords have the last say on who they rent to, convincing landlords to NOT rent to section 8/program people will have to be the only way we can get results then.
Spread collusion, it's the landlord way.....!!!!!!
While I agree that the South Bronx has a high concentration of housing projects and subsidized housing in general, the area overall is most similar to the LES and East Harlem regarding density of housing projects, overall housing stock, low-income ethnic population, and crime issues. And we know what happened to the LES, we know what is happening to East Harlem, but those outside of the Bronx (and within it for that matter) have NO idea what is or isn't happening in the Southern Bronx.
With the South Bronx having sold loft condos for $795,000 (Bronx Bricks condos), selling 2 family townhomes for $799,999 (with ground floor commercial space), and "regular" 2 bedroom condos selling for $200,000+..who do you think is buying? You can choose to list all the reasons why communities will never change, but as many longtime residents of NYC understand, expect the unexpected and things do change.
If anyone would like to actually SEE what is and isn't happening in the Southern Bronx, I would be happy to personally show them and tour them through the area. You can SEE for yourself, or you can read the papers or listen to people's anecdotal opinions. I know what is happening ...and the middle and working class are in fact pouring in...and the city is investing billions to reposition the area to the working/middle class with the amenities/housing/transportation/services to support the growing population.
The L.E.S. probably gentrified because of its location in lower Manhattan.
East Harlem is also probably gentrifying for the same reason. If the L.E.S. was located in the far reaches of Eastern Queens, do you think it would gentrify? Probably not. The Bronx has a bad reputation. Families would never move there, the public schools are terrible. Most people avoid the South Bronx. I'm not denying that some people are moving in, but they are few. A middle-class family would not move to a neighborhood with an average income of $19,000.
The L.E.S. probably gentrified because of its location in lower Manhattan.
East Harlem is also probably gentrifying for the same reason. If the L.E.S. was located in the far reaches of Eastern Queens, do you think it would gentrify? Probably not. The Bronx has a bad reputation. Families would never move there, the public schools are terrible. Most people avoid the South Bronx. I'm not denying that some people are moving in, but they are few. A middle-class family would not move to a neighborhood with an average income of $19,000.
How can anyone call the LES or East Harlem " gentrified" or even gentrifying?
Both are still in the top 5 highest crime precincts in the whole city. A Map of Crime Rates in Each City Precinct -- New York Magazine
I wouldn't consider living in most of either place and there are plenty of parts of The Bronx(even South) that i would.
How can you make a sweeping statement like"The Bronx has a bad reputation.Families would never move there,the public schools are terrible."? I have fellow teachers with families that are buying houses and apartments in The Bronx( including The South) like crazy.Some of them are 2 teacher( 2 income) families.
The Bronx is like the rest of the city.Yes,some of the schools are terrible but many of them are not.There are some very decent schools scattered around The Bronx, so please try to not make such sweeping statements.
Middle class families have nothing to do with gentrification.They are usually the caboose of the gentrification train.Artists and gay people are usually the engines,then other singles and couples without children are in coach.The middle class families with children never move in until it's pretty much over and they usually miss the boat of good deals.
Last edited by bluedog2; 08-13-2010 at 03:52 PM..
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