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The only ignorance here are those who cannot seem to pull their heads out of NYC a _ _ long enough to think of solutions instead of constant (negativity) we can't do this and we can't do that! Oh and modsquad81....no I do not see any reason to keep clarifying my position with the same set of people over and over again. Also to ddhboy, your argument is that people can just continue going to other states if NYC does not offer what they need. Why should a lifetime NYC resident have no choice but to make a big move to another state when we have a ton of potential (millions of acres of land upstate NY) that can be developed here in our own backyard and keep those people here? Population = revenue for both the state of NY and NYC....fleeing population is lost revenue....get it?.....we want to keep our population in the same state. The other thing is political muscle.....more population means more state representation in government....losing population means loss of political seats. This is a great state and not just because of NYC! It is the diversity that makes this such a great place and we need to preserve that. We do not need a whitewashed place with just the rich and very poor! Another thing I should mention....I lived in South Carolina for a number of years.....these other states are not as welcoming to new people moving there from NYC.
If you do not agree or understand the reasoning on this thread, no hard feelings that is life we are not all going to agree on everything. But to tie the thread up calling my position ignorant and repeated posts discussing how you do not agree is ridiculous.....you have made your votes move on. People make happen what they want to make happen or are forced to make happen and that is the bottom line. If you see nothing wrong with the way things are heading in NYC and do not see the potential in millions of acres of untapped land in upstate NY that could be developed to benefit that region as well as NYC that is fine too. As I said a few posts back shame on me to try and discuss bettering the quality of life in NYC as well as the rest of the state! Funny how the people in the upstate NY forum seem to get it!
BTW, not sure if you are aware but for years there has been talk of building high speed rail connecting the upstate NY region with NYC. Just last month the state received $354 million to begin these projects. If your arguments are right then why on earth would any state want to spend that kind of money connecting upstate NY to NYC...as a few have put it why not leave upstate NY the way it is? Because the state is looking at the future potential beyond just NYC borders. Why? Because the current trend where the middle class are becoming like the dinosaurs here is unsustainable....cannot have a city with only the rich and the very poor! Transportation brings new jobs, housing and growth. People have always chosen to live where there is transportation and jobs and they always will. Trust me the state would not be contemplating such a project if they did not see the potential in all that space upstate!
Read the Wikipedia article entitled "New York High Speed Rail". If this rail project finally is done that region will become an attractive place for people to live whether those on here agree or not. Hopefully resulting in easing the high COL and overcrowding here in years to come.
I really have no dog in this fight......I live here comfortably, financially stable and already own a home in another state for obvious reasons. As I stated just wanted to see if the complaints about high COL that I constantly see on this forum from New Yorkers are for real and if people want real solutions or if people are just complaining about the high COL because they have nothing better to do with their time. I see that it is the latter!
This is now my last and final post on this thread....
Last edited by NewYorkBorn; 06-29-2011 at 10:23 AM..
The accela also runs from Washington DC to NYC to Boston. Doesn't mean that most users ride daily for commuting. Why would they want to build the high speed rail line? Because unless you feel like driving for 8 hours, the only way to get from NYC to Bufalo is via airplane. Even if you build the high speed rail line, it's still like a 2-3 hour commute, and its so far out from NYC that it's extremely impractical to commute to and from every day. Besides which, the Obama administration wants to build these high speed rail lines all over the country anyway, largely on the basis that Europe and Asia have these systems, so America should as well.
As such, no, it will not lower the cost of living.
But I'll explain why the rails are being proposed/being built. In Japan, you can ride a bullet train from one major city to another, which tends to connect into the local mass transit system as well. As such, you can travel from your home to your destination entirely on mass transit. Given that Japan is about the size of California, it makes sense vs traveling a plane. Similar systems exist in Western Europe, and China, Russia and Western Europe are presently in the process of building mass railway systems which will go from either side of Eurasia, largely because its a preferable option to having to circumvent the continent via ship to deliver goods. China also has an interest in seeing this railroad extend into Africa so they can easily source raw materials from the continent.
The idea in America is that the rehabilitation of the commuter rail networks will provide an efficient, affordable alternative to airplanes, at least in shuttle service distance. That said they not as practical as the Eurasian rail lines which serve both commercial and industrial industries, and unlike Europe or Japan, America isn't dense and thus these systems aren't nearly efficient as they should be, hence why many of these proposed high speed lines are getting killed left right and center.
America isn't dense and thus these systems aren't nearly efficient as they should be, hence why many of these proposed high speed lines are getting killed left right and center.
This, is the past, present and the foreseeable future of rail service in this country. Even at the risk of decapitation, taking a bus to visit your loved ones in an upstate correctional facility will be cheaper and more practical.
I want to take one step back.
The 4 choices on their face are totally stupid ones that make no sense.
It has nothting to do with any situation in New York but rather the OP does not know what a POLL is.
You can choose between Moving and NOT Moving or you can choose between some desirability or lack of desirability in developing the State but you cannot expect these disparate items to add up to 100%.
They are merely choices in two completely unrelated universes.
The OP does not understand why her poll is nonsense but yet he/she blathers about unkind people who will not recognize what he/she thisnk is a clever question.
It is NOT a question, but 2 unrealted question.
Thus:
Do you like NYC
Do you NOT like NYC or don't have an opinion
Would you like more state development OUTSIDE NYC
Would you NOT like more development or don't care
WILL ADD UP TO 200%....not 100%
So the poll is a foolish waste of everyone's time.
An honest poll:
1. Would you move from NYC if development occurred in the rest of the state
2. Would you Stay in NYC.
I really have no dog in this fight......I live here comfortably, financially stable and already own a home in another state for obvious reasons. As I stated just wanted to see if the complaints about high COL that I constantly see on this forum from New Yorkers are for real and if people want real solutions or if people are just complaining about the high COL because they have nothing better to do with their time. I see that it is the latter!
You really answered your own question with your last paragraph. You may live here comfortably but there are many people who aren't in the same situation as you. That person living paycheck to paycheck (without savings) is in a rut, so they have no choice but to move. If they are in a similar situation, maybe they feel its time for some personal growth. Sometimes you need to move away and have different experiences. New York isn't going anywhere, but your life is gradually ending each day. Its a bit short sighted to say that people complaining about COL have nothing better to do with their time. These same people complaining, are struggling to help their children through school, keep up with utilities, and make an honest living.
on a side note
Have you lived in western Europe before? Hi Speed rail is a great convenience but its still very expensive. You can get airfare flights that are much cheaper than taking the rail. (I used to ride the ICE rail a lot)
I welcome HSR, but aside from the few major terminals that support acela..brand new intermodal stations would need to be built to accommodate existing infrastructure and future growth. I predict some of the prices would be sky high....right now the FRA is antiquated and ill equipped to understand HSR. A direct HSR line to buffalo wouldn't really help the economy to begin with. There needs to be some differentiation with Upstate NY and Western NY. Western NY has lot more in common (culturally and economically) with the midwest than we do down here, unfortunately they've lagged behind for some time now. It would make more sense to include Buffalo apart of a Great Lakes HSR line (with connections to Toronto of course). plus Buff's economy is tied much closer to Southern Ontario than we are.
There's plenty of room for growth and revitalization in our upstate cities. but you can't put the carriage before the horse, and suggest a whole system of HSR or even interurban service without suggesting ways to reinvigorate the local economy and tax base. You complain about people fleeing, and bring up political muscle, but our politicians continually fail us. Its unfortunate that the people who believe in them keep them in office. Politicians don't produce anything but uselessness.
I digress
The transportation nodes around New York are still built to served a centralized city core. The reality is that much of the businesses that once occupied city centers are now located in sprawling suburban office centers, while still retaining a lower % of workers in the urban core. On top of that you have people commuting in between four states on a regular basis, with commuting patterns that resemble an etch a sketch gone berserk.
The $PPM for our commuter rail systems is quite expensive depending on the zone, which in some cases still leaves the middle class office worker car dependent..or in some cases people are quite attached to driving, that's just the way it is in this country. I think Paris is a great example of a multi nodal regional system, it'd be great if we had something like it in NY but it wouldn't happen as mta and pa workers would instantly become federal employees, there'd have to be some type of consolidation..and Its hard to imagine it going over well with how backwards (and criminal) some of the higher ups are in those organizations.
This thread brings up an interesting question but I feel your really trying to make an argument for why middle class jobs are leaving. It's a simple question but I think it may be suited for another forum on this website.
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