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RIP. I'm a Giuliani nut hugger. But Dinkin's at least tried. He inherited a broken Nyc and tried to fix it. Deblasio (worst mayor ever), inherited a fixed nyc and is actively destroying it.
never agreed with him being branded as nyc's "worst mayor."
RIP Dave
I was born in 75. No political awareness until the Koch era. Deblasio is easily the worst nyc mayor in my lifetime, it's not even a contest. Dinkins is thanking him.
I was born in 75. No political awareness until the Koch era. Deblasio is easily the worst nyc mayor in my lifetime, it's not even a contest. Dinkins is thanking him.
RIP. I'm a Giuliani nut hugger. But Dinkin's at least tried. He inherited a broken Nyc and tried to fix it. Deblasio (worst mayor ever), inherited a fixed nyc and is actively destroying it.
He did try but made some mistakes. I did like him, sad news.
Chicago is proof positive that simply flooding the streets with police officers won't tackle serious crime/gang/drug problems. You have to actually let the police do their jobs to have an impact.
You can't have a "crack them heads," broken windows approach, when it affects innocent lives. Dinkins was attempting to balance policing with civil rights. And to put 6,000 cops on the street, during a city budget deficit, is nothing short of remarkable. One wishes that folk would've understood why he had to raise property taxes to do so. The fact of the matter is, crime did go down, almost 15%. But Dinkins 1) failed to frame his image in a way that appealed to his opposition; and 2) his party, and his base, abandoned him, after Crown Heights. I always wonder if anyone else would've been abandoned like they did David Dinkins.
And by the way, that balance, which ended up as community policing, became the model for future mayors in cities across the country, such as Newark (Ras Baraka's pragmatic approach) and Camden (broke up and rebuilt its police!)
You can't have a "crack them heads," broken windows approach, when it affects innocent lives. Dinkins was attempting to balance policing with civil rights. And to put 6,000 cops on the street, during a city budget deficit, is nothing short of remarkable. One wishes that folk would've understood why he had to raise property taxes to do so. The fact of the matter is, crime did go down, almost 15%. But Dinkins 1) failed to frame his image in a way that appealed to his opposition; and 2) his party, and his base, abandoned him, after Crown Heights. I always wonder if anyone else would've been abandoned like they did David Dinkins.
And by the way, that balance, which ended up as community policing, became the model for future mayors in cities across the country, such as Newark (Ras Baraka's pragmatic approach) and Camden (broke up and rebuilt its police!)
What effective policing doesn't affect innocent lives?
I say that you have to weigh the pros and cons of each approach. While I wouldn't advocate for a harsh broken windows and similar approaches in NYC today (we've already come so far, due in large part to policing reforms that Giuliani implemented and Bloomberg kept up IMO), I say they were right for the time. We were living in a war zone, where 2,500+ people were being killed each year via senseless gang/drug/etc. violence. And let's not forget about the incident impacts such such hell had on the lives of the innocent.
Whatever is going on in Chicago isn't working, but there is a lack of political leadership willing to make tough decisions. I pray that NYC doesn't return to those days.
As for Camden:
Quote:
In response, the city did something drastic. It disbanded its police force and turned the policing responsibility over to Camden County. The county then created a new force that, at the time, was expected to replace other local departments in the county. Camden officers were fired. Many opted to apply for jobs with the new county force, with nearly all being hired.
The new force was larger than the original, and the county invested in a massive surveillance system, with hundreds of cameras now being monitored by law enforcement. It initially instituted a “broken windows” approach alongside a community policing initiative. Complaints increased, then fell.
The murder rate also fell sharply, as did the violent crime rate. Many outside the city saw what was happening as a miracle. A friend who attends college in Camden tells me she felt safer. Another friend tells me “it’s much safer now than it’s been.”
I'm interested in learning more about the Newark model, to include understanding exactly what is happening there. Is crime decreasing due to policing reforms or because of changing demographics (businesses moving in, wealthier individuals returning, poorer individuals moving out, etc.).
To tie this all back to Dinkins and the topic at hand, from where I stand Dinkins didn't have the courage to make the decisions that needed to be made to address crime in our city. I don't know about you, but I'll take some rare disruption brought about by increased policing vs. being held up at gunpoint and almost being shot while walking home with the family (the story of my life growing up in Bed Stuy). That said, and while I hope that his soul RIP, I appreciate Dinkins' period as mayor as I don't think that Giuliani would have been able to win otherwise.
His mayhem created a lot of overtime for cops. Definitely helped finance my Catholic School education just like Diblasio's mayhem is financing my kids'.
What effective policing doesn't affect innocent lives?
I say that you have to weigh the pros and cons of each approach. While I wouldn't advocate for a harsh broken windows and similar approaches in NYC today (we've already come so far, due in large part to policing reforms that Giuliani implemented and Bloomberg kept up IMO), I say they were right for the time. We were living in a war zone, where 2,500+ people were being killed each year via senseless gang/drug/etc. violence. And let's not forget about the incident impacts such such hell had on the lives of the innocent.
Whatever is going on in Chicago isn't working, but there is a lack of political leadership willing to make tough decisions. I pray that NYC doesn't return to those days.
I'm interested in learning more about the Newark model, to include understanding exactly what is happening there. Is crime decreasing due to policing reforms or because of changing demographics (businesses moving in, wealthier individuals returning, poorer individuals moving out, etc.).
To tie this all back to Dinkins and the topic at hand, from where I stand Dinkins didn't have the courage to make the decisions that needed to be made to address crime in our city. I don't know about you, but I'll take some rare disruption brought about by increased policing vs. being held up at gunpoint and almost being shot while walking home with the family (the story of my life growing up in Bed Stuy). That said, and while I hope that his soul RIP, I appreciate Dinkins' period as mayor as I don't think that Giuliani would have been able to win otherwise.
Newark did the exact same thing Chicago did. Demolished most of their public housing and now the crime got pushed to the West and South Wards. Same direction it went for Chicago too, as both cities have water for their eastern boundaries.
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"The man who sleeps on the floor, can never fall out of bed." -Martin Lawrence
What effective policing doesn't affect innocent lives?
To tie this all back to Dinkins and the topic at hand, from where I stand Dinkins didn't have the courage to make the decisions that needed to be made to address crime in our city. I don't know about you, but I'll take some rare disruption brought about by increased policing vs. being held up at gunpoint and almost being shot while walking home with the family (the story of my life growing up in Bed Stuy). That said, and while I hope that his soul RIP, I appreciate Dinkins' period as mayor as I don't think that Giuliani would have been able to win otherwise.
Violent crime declined 20 percent on David Dinkins' watch.
But nobody knew it at the time because no figures later than 1991 were available during the 1993 mayoral race.
Nothing special happened to the crime rate when Giuliani took over. Violent crime was already declining strongly when he became mayor and continued declining after he left.
Mr. Dinkins’s most lasting achievement might have been in the very area where he now fares worst in popular memory. He obtained the State Legislature’s permission to dedicate a tax to hire thousands of police officers, and he fought to preserve a portion of that anticrime money to keep schools open into the evening, an award-winning initiative that kept tens of thousands of teenagers off the street. Later he hired Commissioner Raymond W. Kelly, and in the mayor’s final years in office, homicide began its now record-breaking decline.
_______________________________________________
Dinkins became one of the primary architects of "broken windows" style policing. As the sociologist Alex Vitale notes, it was Dinkins, not Giuliani, who began chasing the "squeegee men" off the streets.
Above all, Dinkins did this by putting more officers on the streets. His Safe Streets, Safe City program, wrung from a reluctant state legislature, eventually let the city hire 6,000 additional officers, making possible a 54% hike in the number of policemen on daily patrol. Commissioner Bill Bratton would later note that Dinkins' heavy political lift had paved the way for his own early policing innovations.
Under Dinkins' watch, the astronomical crime rates of the late 1980s and early 1990s finally began to go down — major crime down 14% from the beginning of his mayoralty to the end, murders down 12%.
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DAVID DINKINS, MAYOR 1990-1993
Quote:
Originally Posted by scatman
The fact of the matter is, crime did go down, almost 15%. But Dinkins 1) failed to frame his image in a way that appealed to his opposition; and 2) his party, and his base, abandoned him, after Crown Heights. I always wonder if anyone else would've been abandoned like they did David Dinkins.
yes
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