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Hey everyone, I recently discovered this great board and just wanted to say hi from Flatbush, and also, to share my story as a kind of cautionary tale. This goes out to the dissatisfied natives who are thinking of moving elsewhere. I'm a 26 year old born-and-bred Brooklyn chick that lived here until 2006. I went to Brooklyn College and everything. But, I met someone who lived in the Phoenix metro area (specifically, Tempe), and was head over heels. After falling for the whole mellow college town thing on a series of extended visits, I foolishly followed her out there. I was looking for a change of scenery, since I'd lived here my whole life. Naturally the relationship didn't last, and I found myself striking out on my own after a couple of months.
Fortunately, being a college town, Tempe always has a glut of affordable rentals, and I found a spacious 1000 sq ft 1 BD with pool and 24/7 gym access right next to my apt for $900. It was a newish complex just minutes from downtown Tempe. My $30k salary went pretty far. But that came at a definite price. I have to say, if you must live anywhere in the Valley, Tempe is the only place that's remotely livable. But as decent as it was, I found myself desperately homesick. The people and the culture out there are totally different than NYC, in a bad way. Phoenix is not so much a city but a sprawling collection of hick suburbs trying desperately to play with the big kids and failing on every level. The worst part (aside from the weather, which I honestly didn't mind that much) was living without a car. Anyone who complains about the MTA's incompetence should be forced to live in Phoenix and have to deal with Valley Metro for a week. "Public transit" in the Valley consists of a hodgepodge of poorly funded buses that constantly break down, (no AC half the time even in the dead of summer), and mouth-breathing drivers who don't pay attention to stop signals and constantly drive past your stop. Instead of pouring money into beefing up the current system, they're putting in a joke of a light rail, which will do nothing to alleviate any issues. Tempe is bike-friendly by design, but God help you if you have business that takes you elsewhere. Western car culture is at its absolute worst in PHX.
Saturday nights were horrible, frat boys on the loose racking up DUIs and don't let there be an ASU football game going on. Because, really, there was nothing to do but get drunk and/or high. As far as I could tell there were no other GLBT people in town off the ASU campus, unless you followed the Underground Gayroad to Central Ave. Outside of the immediate ASU area I did not feel comfortable holding my GF's hand. There were multitudes of Scottsdale D-bags driving Hummers even when gas was $4+, few people with any clue about local restaurants because PF Chang's and the Olive Garden were the height of their day. There was little if any decent ethnic food to be had unless you wanted Mexican, or were lucky enough to find a place run by another East Coast transplant. I met many Tri-State expats in my time out there, and all massively regretted their moves.
Even with all that negativity, there were bright spots. Being a couple of hours from some of the most scenic spots in the West was pretty nice. My friends and I took regular weekend trips to Sedona, and I loved the Red Rock Mountains if not the fluff-witted New Age crystal huffers that congregate there. But PHX itself is the armpit of Hades, a cultural wasteland with nothing going for it but the weather in the winter, with an economy even worse than NYC's thanks to the housing bust (FIVE homes across the street from the rental home I shared with my GF were foreclosed on when I left, and it's gotten worse since).
Going back to Bklyn for Xmas was horrible because I missed it so bad, and I never wanted to leave. After 2 1/2 years, I finally could not take it anymore and ran back to NYC last August as fast as I could, despite moving back in with family for the time being. It's true that everywhere in America has its problems, and no place will suit every person's tastes or needs, but I would not trade NYC for anything. I really did not know what I had until it was gone. I don't regret my experience in Arizona despite how miserable I was, for that very reason. I have a new appreciation for many aspects about life in NYC that I used to take for granted. So I just want to say that for those of you yearning for greener pastures where your money can stretch further, remember that Quality of Life is a highly subjective thing. It's not just an age thing, either, because a lot of my mother's friends fled to places like Charlotte and Atlanta and were miserable and tried to come back but couldn't afford to. I know I wouldn't have been able to come back but for my family's help. For me, the diversity, vibrancy, cultural offerings, food and so much more are worth having to share living space. I was Queen of my own castle in PHX, but despite making some good friends, it was bereft of the things that mean the most to me. It was soulless. I will probably go back to visit from time to time, but there's no place like home. NYC has probably ruined me for living in any other city.
Yes, welcome back! I know just how it feels to be a native Brooklynite coming home again. When I was 13, my parents bought a house in the suburbs--and not even a New York suburb. They went and crossed the river to New Jersey! I hated it from Day One. Even told my mother that when I got out of school and landed my first job, I intended to move back to Brooklyn. (She didn't believe me...came as quite a surprise when I was as good as my word!)
Yes, welcome back! I know just how it feels to be a native Brooklynite coming home again. When I was 13, my parents bought a house in the suburbs--and not even a New York suburb. They went and crossed the river to New Jersey! I hated it from Day One. Even told my mother that when I got out of school and landed my first job, I intended to move back to Brooklyn. (She didn't believe me...came as quite a surprise when I was as good as my word!)
LOL! It's kind of hilarious, I met so many people from the Tri-State area out there, specifically Jersey. The New Yorkers though, we were like a secret club. It really is like the expatriate experience. It doesn't matter how long you've been gone, native NYers stay that way and recognize each other. I had some of the best random conversations with strangers because of that, which always baffled the locals around us.
For me it really was the food. I'm not saying that there isn't decent, non-chain food to be had in other places. I did find one really awesome restaurant in Mesa adjacent to a farm where they grew everything they served on the menu (it was featured on Food Network once). But the breadth, depth and variety of food here in NY is second to none. Not to mention the quality. Our cheap street eats are better than the fancy restaurant stuff out there, no joke. What made me laugh the hardest was the sheer number of dives that claimed to serve "NY style" food out there. Not just pizza either, I've seen the label claimed for everything from Chinese takeout to Greek. And it was all uniformly terrible and not remotely "NY style", except for the few places run by people who were really from here.
I think within the next 20 years or so the recent luster of the "Sun Belt" will fade. As naturally beautiful as the west is (as well as smaller cities like Sedona), Phoenix and Vegas and the like are just horribly developed. They are everything bland and awful about America at its most gluttonous. Cultural and intellectual wastelands to boot.
I suspect we'll see the Northeast and the Great Lakes regions rise again as destinations as more and more people realize there's a lot more to happiness than four seasons of sun in an ecosystem never intended to support that many people.
I'm living in the suburban wasteland city of San Antonio where everyone here thinks it's the best place on Earth... well because it has 18 Wal Marts, tons of strip shopping centers (same exact chain stores everywhere you go) along with 30+ McDonalds and countless restaurants (but of course they're all chains).
It's not worth it financially to live in a city like this. Like the OP stated, if you can stay in NY, stay. Life is too short to be spent in culturally suffocated lands.
I think within the next 20 years or so the recent luster of the "Sun Belt" will fade. As naturally beautiful as the west is (as well as smaller cities like Sedona), Phoenix and Vegas and the like are just horribly developed. They are everything bland and awful about America at its most gluttonous. Cultural and intellectual wastelands to boot.
I suspect we'll see the Northeast and the Great Lakes regions rise again as destinations as more and more people realize there's a lot more to happiness than four seasons of sun in an ecosystem never intended to support that many people.
interesting post.
i've always had this fascination of moving to a LV suburb for about a year. i can't stand the east coast winters much longer. but, your comments put my thoughts into perspective...
Hey everyone, I recently discovered this great board and just wanted to say hi from Flatbush, and also, to share my story as a kind of cautionary tale. This goes out to the dissatisfied natives who are thinking of moving elsewhere. I'm a 26 year old born-and-bred Brooklyn chick that lived here until 2006. I went to Brooklyn College and everything. But, I met someone who lived in the Phoenix metro area (specifically, Tempe), and was head over heels. After falling for the whole mellow college town thing on a series of extended visits, I foolishly followed her out there. I was looking for a change of scenery, since I'd lived here my whole life. Naturally the relationship didn't last, and I found myself striking out on my own after a couple of months.
Fortunately, being a college town, Tempe always has a glut of affordable rentals, and I found a spacious 1000 sq ft 1 BD with pool and 24/7 gym access right next to my apt for $900. It was a newish complex just minutes from downtown Tempe. My $30k salary went pretty far. But that came at a definite price. I have to say, if you must live anywhere in the Valley, Tempe is the only place that's remotely livable. But as decent as it was, I found myself desperately homesick. The people and the culture out there are totally different than NYC, in a bad way. Phoenix is not so much a city but a sprawling collection of hick suburbs trying desperately to play with the big kids and failing on every level. The worst part (aside from the weather, which I honestly didn't mind that much) was living without a car. Anyone who complains about the MTA's incompetence should be forced to live in Phoenix and have to deal with Valley Metro for a week. "Public transit" in the Valley consists of a hodgepodge of poorly funded buses that constantly break down, (no AC half the time even in the dead of summer), and mouth-breathing drivers who don't pay attention to stop signals and constantly drive past your stop. Instead of pouring money into beefing up the current system, they're putting in a joke of a light rail, which will do nothing to alleviate any issues. Tempe is bike-friendly by design, but God help you if you have business that takes you elsewhere. Western car culture is at its absolute worst in PHX.
Saturday nights were horrible, frat boys on the loose racking up DUIs and don't let there be an ASU football game going on. Because, really, there was nothing to do but get drunk and/or high. As far as I could tell there were no other GLBT people in town off the ASU campus, unless you followed the Underground Gayroad to Central Ave. Outside of the immediate ASU area I did not feel comfortable holding my GF's hand. There were multitudes of Scottsdale D-bags driving Hummers even when gas was $4+, few people with any clue about local restaurants because PF Chang's and the Olive Garden were the height of their day. There was little if any decent ethnic food to be had unless you wanted Mexican, or were lucky enough to find a place run by another East Coast transplant. I met many Tri-State expats in my time out there, and all massively regretted their moves.
Even with all that negativity, there were bright spots. Being a couple of hours from some of the most scenic spots in the West was pretty nice. My friends and I took regular weekend trips to Sedona, and I loved the Red Rock Mountains if not the fluff-witted New Age crystal huffers that congregate there. But PHX itself is the armpit of Hades, a cultural wasteland with nothing going for it but the weather in the winter, with an economy even worse than NYC's thanks to the housing bust (FIVE homes across the street from the rental home I shared with my GF were foreclosed on when I left, and it's gotten worse since).
Going back to Bklyn for Xmas was horrible because I missed it so bad, and I never wanted to leave. After 2 1/2 years, I finally could not take it anymore and ran back to NYC last August as fast as I could, despite moving back in with family for the time being. It's true that everywhere in America has its problems, and no place will suit every person's tastes or needs, but I would not trade NYC for anything. I really did not know what I had until it was gone. I don't regret my experience in Arizona despite how miserable I was, for that very reason. I have a new appreciation for many aspects about life in NYC that I used to take for granted. So I just want to say that for those of you yearning for greener pastures where your money can stretch further, remember that Quality of Life is a highly subjective thing. It's not just an age thing, either, because a lot of my mother's friends fled to places like Charlotte and Atlanta and were miserable and tried to come back but couldn't afford to. I know I wouldn't have been able to come back but for my family's help. For me, the diversity, vibrancy, cultural offerings, food and so much more are worth having to share living space. I was Queen of my own castle in PHX, but despite making some good friends, it was bereft of the things that mean the most to me. It was soulless. I will probably go back to visit from time to time, but there's no place like home. NYC has probably ruined me for living in any other city.
I am glad that you moved back. I thought that I was doing something when I left NY to go to Virginia in 2004. It is something that I still have not come to terms yet. It is too slow for me. Hopefully in another 2 years, I can move back to Brooklyn, or Queens. I would even move to the Bronx.
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