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The Middle Class isn't coming back. What is there to come back to? Horrible schools and high costs? Outdated housing? NYC has innumerable benefits, but then again, most people can enjoy those same benefits by moving into Nassau County/New Jersey and not have to deal with the drama.
The Middle class was leaving NY long, long before the current gentrification. As long as the 1900's, when you stop and think about it. When people want to have kids and some space to themselves, they leave. Maybe places like Southern Brooklyn or Queens could become middle class havens, but what is there in Willamsburg for a middle class family? It was a slum when it was first built and that's why many left in the first place.
Too many people are living in the past. No one wants to live cramped 3 to a room like in the "Good Ole Days". The days of the Ol time Lower East Side and tight-knit areas is past (except for the current immigrants, which everyone overlooks).
Let's have some genuine honesty here and say what this is really about: class envy. This thread is rife with it.
class envy! lol i like that....people need to be honest with themselves and what they can afford...this is why this rockaway boy is right where he is....my apartment is nice as hell but im surrounded by projects....but thats ok with me i grew up here and i know what it is so its nothing to me.
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"The man who sleeps on the floor, can never fall out of bed." -Martin Lawrence
I'm all for development, but it would be nice if developers built apartments that normal people could actually afford. Why must everything be $800+ a square foot? Is it impossible to build something cheaper and still make money? There would be people lined up around the block to buy a $200k studio or a $400k one bedroom in a good location. But $800k? Not so much.
/\ Actually, you inadverantly hit the nail on the head.
Building in NYC is a complete nightmare. Between infinate levels of beauocracy, vastly overpriced union-mandated labor, and regulations that require years to clear, by the time all is set and done, yeah, building "Middle Income" housing is not all that practical, unless we were talking about 800-1200 sq ft apartments, and for many materialstic Americans, that's not gonna fly. And even with that, stuff still goes wrong (crane collapses last summer)
Like I say over and over again, NYers shoot themselves in the foot on this issue.
/\ Actually, you inadverantly hit the nail on the head.
Building in NYC is a complete nightmare. Between infinate levels of beauocracy, vastly overpriced union-mandated labor, and regulations that require years to clear, by the time all is set and done, yeah, building "Middle Income" housing is not all that practical, unless we were talking about 800-1200 sq ft apartments, and for many materialstic Americans, that's not gonna fly. And even with that, stuff still goes wrong (crane collapses last summer)
Like I say over and over again, NYers shoot themselves in the foot on this issue.
Many New Yorkers would be thrilled with an 800 to 1,200 sq. ft. apartment. Sign me up.
The Middle Class isn't coming back. What is there to come back to? Horrible schools and high costs? Outdated housing? NYC has innumerable benefits, but then again, most people can enjoy those same benefits by moving into Nassau County/New Jersey and not have to deal with the drama.
The Middle class was leaving NY long, long before the current gentrification. As long as the 1900's, when you stop and think about it. When people want to have kids and some space to themselves, they leave. Maybe places like Southern Brooklyn or Queens could become middle class havens, but what is there in Willamsburg for a middle class family? It was a slum when it was first built and that's why many left in the first place.
Too many people are living in the past. No one wants to live cramped 3 to a room like in the "Good Ole Days". The days of the Ol time Lower East Side and tight-knit areas is past (except for the current immigrants, which everyone overlooks).
Let's have some genuine honesty here and say what this is really about: class envy. This thread is rife with it.
Correct me if I'm wrong. But are you implying that my underlying issue is "class envy", because I suggested that due to the quality of the housing in WILLIAMSBURG, that those of middle income or working class people shoud be the ones who could afford to live there? "Class envy" I assumed would have been to say, why can't someone who makes $45,000 with two kids live on the Upper West Side. I'm so sorry for being irrational and thinking that Williamsburg should be affordable to middle income people. And I wasn't speaking of your Ozzie and Harriet middle class people, I'm talking about blue-collar working class people who are starting out but don't want to live in projects, especially immigrants. Alas, I'm such a pinko Marxist, how dare i assault higher income people whom I didn't even mention in my post, I apoligize. Shooooot! I'll take a 1200 sqft too. Alot of people here in Florida live like in that scenario with a small family.
There are two separate issues here: (1) the gentrification of Williamsburg and (2) developer's speculation that people would pay (peak) Manhattan prices to live in Williamsburg. The immediate problem is the glut of ludicrously overpriced condos in the the neighborhood. That's not a problem anyone can fix. The developers were stupid/greedy and they deserve to take a bath.
On the other hand, neighborhoods change. People come and go. Trying to stop it would be both counter-productive and require more government intervention than most anyone could stand. It's the speculation that makes it look so egregious. Until a few years ago people were moving to Williamsburg because it was cheap. The first-round gentrifiers were willing will to pay a little bit more to live there, but not Manhattan prices.
It'll probably go back to what it was 10 years ago, just with more coffee shops and places for brunch. That doesn't seem like such a bad thing.
Correct me if I'm wrong. But are you implying that my underlying issue is "class envy", because I suggested that due to the quality of the housing in WILLIAMSBURG, that those of middle income or working class people shoud be the ones who could afford to live there? "Class envy" I assumed would have been to say, why can't someone who makes $45,000 with two kids live on the Upper West Side. I'm so sorry for being irrational and thinking that Williamsburg should be affordable to middle income people. And I wasn't speaking of your Ozzie and Harriet middle class people, I'm talking about blue-collar working class people who are starting out but don't want to live in projects, especially immigrants. Alas, I'm such a pinko Marxist, how dare i assault higher income people whom I didn't even mention in my post, I apoligize. Shooooot! I'll take a 1200 sqft too. Alot of people here in Florida live like in that scenario with a small family.
If NYC was so out-of-control, then why has the city added like 1 million new immigrants since 2000? I see plenty of Asians, Latinos, Eastern Europeans, Africans and the like going just fine like they always have. Look the the amount of nabes gentrified, and you'll see they cover at most 5% of the city's total areas. big whoop.
And let's not forget Newark, Jersey City, Yonkers, Elizabeth. Plenty of working class areas still around.
If NYC was so out-of-control, then why has the city added like 1 million new immigrants since 2000? I see plenty of Asians, Latinos, Eastern Europeans, Africans and the like going just fine like they always have. Look the the amount of nabes gentrified, and you'll see they cover at most 5% of the city's total areas. big whoop.
And let's not forget Newark, Jersey City, Yonkers, Elizabeth. Plenty of working class areas still around.
You have a valid point, I am originally from Elizabeth and my family is from the Caribbean, I was countering the tone in your previous post it came off as condescending. What I was getting at was the fact that in a place like Williamsburg it doesn't make sense that for the same quality of housing you may find in Queens you're paying 50-60% more, it doesn't mean that this is "class envy". And yes I do understand the dynamics that take place as far as the maintenance costs and the cost of material and labor to construct/renovate such buildings. I'm not placing the blame solely on landlords, its just somewhere down the line something's f'd up. But as someone said earlier the prices fluctuate according to demand as well, I just hope Williamsburg doesn't became as inflated as the East Village.
i hade a chance to visit the burg in person last week...strange sums it up. all like the giant high rises are by the water and its just spooky walking down the street seeing stalled after stalled project. i counted 1 project actively being worked on. the worst part was i just didnt see the ifastructure for these luzory apts. williamsburg is mostly bars and semingly houses except for bedford park.theres was some intresting modern looking restarants but no luxury amenities in the area really except manhatten across river. the intresting part was you see lots of bmws,audi's etc in the nabe but i just dont get why there there? maybe there all real estate agents. oya and the hipsters, im under 30 and all i can say is LOL.ya i tried 2 pizza places (one was teh 1.25 slice place) and both were terrible.
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