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I agreed with everything you said to the moment you demonized liberals, at which you lost every bit of credibility with me. You had a perfectly good opinion until you were compelled to wave your red flag and throw an anti liberal comment in there. Maybe you think you have to be anti liberal to have credibility with a conservative, but you don't. That's just being afraid to be thought of as an independent thinker who might then be criticized by and/or excluded from the tribe. I don't know if it's brainwashing or cowardice or laziness or tribalism, but it's everywhere.
I don't identify with either liberal nor conservatives. I have sided against/for both types of posters here on CD. I simply call it how I see it.
Conservatives say they want small government but that is a lie.
Liberals simply ask for too much regulation and intrusion in personal liberties.
Both camps here tend to group think along the way.... rather than individual thought...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Retired
As a conservative I thought long and hard on this issue.
I believe it will have negative affect on neurocognitive functions in the developing brain but so does alcohol.
If an adult with a fully developed brain wants to smoke or drink away a few brain cells it's their choice. In the end ,under any light, I could not find any reason not to support its legalization.
This is one example of individual thought.... we have a conservative who by all accounts could have easily just fallen in line with many conservatives in this particular stance. Instead, he expressed a desire to critical think his way into a logical conclusion despite his own opinions/desires/biases.
A truly independent thinker wouldn't take offense to anything I posted.... Anyways, I'm not too much concerned about reputation points here. That's only for sheep... for which there is a lot roaming here on CD.
PS. If anything, I lean to the liberal side on many social issues.. so the notion that I need to be anti-liberal in order to earn more points with conservatives is ludicrous .
"A hypocritical stance more aligned with liberals which tend to over regulate and produce nanny states counter to smaller government involvement in private individual lives which they tout so much." is what you said. I guess the liberals forgot to over regulate the war machine, the bankers, the industrial polluters, the prison industrial complex, the corporations like GE and Haliburton that pay no taxes.
Doesn't sound like you are an independent thinker to me, categorizing all liberals as over regulating nanny state creators. Sounds pretty right wing despite whatever libertarian leaning you may have.
Maybe the term liberal has lost it's meaning. It used to denote empathy, generosity, intelligence, open mindedness, fairness, compassion. Now it's just a dirty word used by right wingers as a snarky or outright insult.
Quote:
Originally Posted by usayit
...
PS. If anything, I lean to the liberal side on many social issues.. so the notion that I need to be anti-liberal in order to earn more points with conservatives is ludicrous .
Coumo has already figured the tax revenue into his upcoming budget, that will pass, so it doesn't matter if you are for or against. It will be legal.
Cuomo is only doing it since NJ is thinking about doing it. If NJ passes it and NY doesn't pass it then you will see a surge of NYC residents making trips to NJ to buy weed and then their $$$ goes to NJ.
It's better to be 1st. Then you have people from CT, PA, etc visiting NY to buy some weed.
"A hypocritical stance more aligned with liberals which tend to over regulate and produce nanny states counter to smaller government involvement in private individual lives which they tout so much." is what you said. I guess the liberals forgot to over regulate the war machine, the bankers, the industrial polluters, the prison industrial complex, the corporations like GE and Haliburton that pay no taxes.
Doesn't sound like you are an independent thinker to me, categorizing all liberals as over regulating nanny state creators. Sounds pretty right wing despite whatever libertarian leaning you may have.
Maybe the term liberal has lost it's meaning. It used to denote empathy, generosity, intelligence, open mindedness, fairness, compassion. Now it's just a dirty word used by right wingers as a snarky or outright insult.
Typical cherry-picking lack of understanding blinded by ones need to defend their position.
You believe that liberal means empathy, generosity, intelligence, open mindedness, fairness compassion is also categorizing liberals on one end of the spectrum and conservative right in the other.... Are you implying that conservatives are incapable of empathy, generosity, intelligence, openmindness, fairness and compassion? Is this an example of your independent thought.... that liberals are all good and everyone outside of that is a conservative?
You want to argue liberal vs conservative meanwhile you haven't figured out they are both the same. The only difference is the agenda. If I don't fall in line with your liberal stance I must be a conservative right winger. Typical sheep that follows scripted herd mentality.
If you search my post history you'll realize I am far from a conservative right winger.... If anything, I've been accused more often as a lefty on social issues (tend to lean conservative in fiscal policy). Just because you don't agree with something I said suddenly I'm a right winger.... that is where your understanding is superficial... typical "us" vs "them".
What I find so telling is that we actually agree on the topic of this thread... and yet you find it so compelling to place me in the conservative right wing camp. I bet that you and I agree on most hot topic issues such as abortion, same sex marriage, etc.... but you'll still argue for the sake of argue... totally latched on the idea that I don't hold a high opinion of liberal agenda in general.
Typical cherry-picking lack of understanding blinded by ones need to defend their position.
That's the tone I object to. Nothing I said would indicate cherry picking, blindness or a need to defend my position. I stated my position. Whether anyone agrees or disagrees is up to them. I don't believe it is possible to change anyone's mind on politics or religion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by usayit
You believe that liberal means empathy, generosity, intelligence, open mindedness, fairness compassion is also categorizing liberals on one end of the spectrum and conservative right in the other.... Are you implying that conservatives are incapable of empathy, generosity, intelligence, openmindness, fairness and compassion? Is this an example of your independent thought.... that liberals are all good and everyone outside of that is a conservative?
I never said that. You assumed that's what I think. I never said a positive view of liberals = a negative view of conservatives. I was defining what the word liberal used to mean and still does if you look it up in the dictionary.
Quote:
Originally Posted by usayit
You want to argue liberal vs conservative meanwhile you haven't figured out they are both the same. The only difference is the agenda. If I don't fall in line with your liberal stance I must be a conservative right winger. Typical sheep that follows scripted herd mentality.
I'm not arguing liberal vs. conservatives. I'm not a typical sheep following herd mentality. (There you go again with those assumptions and negative characterizations I objected to.) I'm objecting to your characterization of liberals. Most people are so hyped up on this red vs blue, liberal vs. conservative, Democrat vs. Republican argument that they no longer have any critical thinking of the actual reality of of politics any more . It's like a wrestling match audience going wild cheering for one of the wrestlers, when they both work for the same promoter and have more in common with each other than the they do with the audience.
Quote:
Originally Posted by usayit
...
What I find so telling is that we actually agree on the topic of this thread... and yet you find it so compelling to place me in the conservative right wing camp. I bet that you and I agree on most hot topic issues such as abortion, same sex marriage, etc.... but you'll still argue for the sake of argue... totally latched on the idea that I don't hold a high opinion of liberal agenda in general.
I never questioned your views, just your tone and characterization of liberals. The comments you made that I quoted doesn't equal a high opinion of liberals to me. I never even said you were a conservative, I guessed you had liberal and libertarian leanings. I never criticized conservatives or libertarians. I did say right wingers are using "liberal" as a dirty word, and many are. I should have said many rather than just right wingers. I said you were doing that too with your characterizing the behaviour of liberals. But maybe we're both just shooting in the dark here.
Typical cherry-picking lack of understanding blinded by ones need to defend their position.
That's the tone I object to. Nothing I said would indicate cherry picking, blindness or a need to defend my position. I stated my position. Whether anyone agrees or disagrees is up to them. I don't believe it is possible to change anyone's mind on politics or religion. [/quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by usayit
You believe that liberal means empathy, generosity, intelligence, open mindedness, fairness compassion is also categorizing liberals on one end of the spectrum and conservative right in the other.... Are you implying that conservatives are incapable of empathy, generosity, intelligence, openmindness, fairness and compassion? Is this an example of your independent thought.... that liberals are all good and everyone outside of that is a conservative?
I never said that. You assumed that's what I think. I never said a positive view of liberals = a negative view of conservatives.
Quote:
Originally Posted by usayit
You want to argue liberal vs conservative meanwhile you haven't figured out they are both the same. The only difference is the agenda. If I don't fall in line with your liberal stance I must be a conservative right winger. Typical sheep that follows scripted herd mentality.
I'm not arguing liberal vs. conservatives. I'm not a typical sheep following herd mentality. (There you go again with those assumptions and negative characterizations I objected to.) I'm objecting to your characterization of all liberals. Most people are so hyped up on this red vs. blue, liberal vs. conservtive, Democrat vs. Republican argument that they no longer have any critical thinking of the actual reality of of politics any more . It's like a wrestling match audience going wild cheering for one of the wrestlers, when they both work for the same promoter and have more in common with each other than they do with the audience.
[/quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by usayit
...
What I find so telling is that we actually agree on the topic of this thread... and yet you find it so compelling to place me in the conservative right wing camp. I bet that you and I agree on most hot topic issues such as abortion, same sex marriage, etc.... but you'll still argue for the sake of argue... totally latched on the idea that I don't hold a high opinion of liberal agenda in general.
I never questioned your views, just your tone and characterization of liberals. The comments of your's that I quoted doesn't equal a high opinion of liberals to me. I never even said you were a conservative, you've generalized them as well. I guessed you had liberal and libertarian leanings. But we're both probably shooting in the dark here.
I agreed with everything you said to the moment you demonized liberals, at which you lost every bit of credibility with me. You had a perfectly good opinion until you were compelled to wave your red flag and throw an anti liberal comment in there. Maybe you think you have to be anti liberal to have credibility with a conservative, but you don't. That's just being afraid to be thought of as an independent thinker who might then be criticized by and/or excluded from the tribe. I don't know if it's brainwashing or cowardice or laziness or tribalism, but it's everywhere.
None of what you pegged me for is even remotely correct.
but too blind to realize it.
Why would I want to be anti liberal when I actually agree with many liberals on social stances?
Why would I be afraid of being "excluded from the tribe" when I an openly critical/supportive depending on the issue to both conservatives and liberal... much more openly say that I don't identify with either?
So if anyone has a problem with independent think and tone it is you.
None of what you pegged me for is even remotely correct.
but too blind to realize it.
Why would I want to be anti liberal when I actually agree with many liberals on social stances?
Why would I be afraid of being "excluded from the tribe" when I an openly critical/supportive depending on the issue to both conservatives and liberal... much more openly say that I don't identify with either?
So if anyone has a problem with independent think and tone it is you.
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