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Thanks! I'll take you up on that offer. I'm seeking to relocate my wife and 2yo son to a true 4 seasons environment in upstate NY. We're currently residing in Berkeley in the SF Bay Area. Saratoga Springs captivated my mind for a brief moment, but I think we'd grow bored there socially and culturally, in a short while- seems like a nice vacation/destination town, though. But, I've since become very interested in Ithaca after all I've read thus far ( UTNE | America's Most Enlightened Towns ). However, I'm noticing quite a bit of chatter on the boards regarding life in Syracuse. Looks like a decent town to raise a family, so far as suburban comfort goes. I haven't read much about culture for that town outside of SU sports activity's. Seeing your post about Watkins Glen immediately reminded me about 'The Glen' - race track there- I'm a big motor-sports fan and having a track in my backyard would be a nice perk, so I have to ask: How is it raising a family in your town? We like to hike and road-bicycle. I'd like to get my family engaged in cross-country skiing. But most of all, I'm concerned with good housing values in the 3br/2bath sized market and a strong K-12 educational system. Having a nice downtown atmosphere free of chain/franchise type businesses would be nice, as well. Thanks!
If you think you would grow bored in Saratoga Springs, both socially and culturally, you may want to rethink towns like Watkins Glen and parts of Syracuse. Many people, myself included, think Saratoga Springs is a great cultural town. My parents live there and are involved with SPAC, the library, and local theater. I can't imagine being bored there. Also, my husband and I used to own a cottage in Watkins Glen, and, with apologies to Andysmommy07, I did not much care for the town. Perhaps it has changed in the past 10 years so my opinion might be way off. I am not a race fan, so the noise and crowds of race season bothered me. I also felt the lack of a good grocery store and felt the quaint stores in town really just catered to tourists and didn't provide general needed goods. But, on the positive note, it is on a beautiful lake and has gorgeous natural beauty. Ithaca is a great town, probably the most cultural spot around. Syracuse, not so much. Syracuse does have a lot to offer, but it is hard to beat Ithaca's combo of great culture and great schools. You will find all the chains in Ithaca. Every city that has culture will have the chain stores. It is probably a matter of simple math and demographics, the bigger the city, the bigger the population = culture and box stores.
Good luck.
Jo in Skaneateles
....All hail Ithaca and Saratoga Springs...upstate's "trendy" towns adrift in a sea of backward small towns, old industrial cities and culture deprived farming communities....and of course, will even they measure up to the standards of Cali's elite from where else?....Berkeley. And before you flail me w/verbal arrows...this was done as a bit of dry humor.
I lived in Skaneateles back in the late 80's for 4 years before moving back to Ct, where I am from. Back then, we were drawn to Skaneateles because it was "quiet, quaint, and undiscovered". Four years later, when we left, the reasons my husband cited for leaving was because it was "quiet, quaint, and undiscovered". No flames from me, Tioga, I love dry wit.
....All hail Ithaca and Saratoga Springs...upstate's "trendy" towns adrift in a sea of backward small towns, old industrial cities and culture deprived farming communities....and of course, will even they measure up to the standards of Cali's elite from where else?....Berkeley. And before you flail me w/verbal arrows...this was done as a bit of dry humor.
Yes, but so true. Coming from the Holy Grail of avant-arde will be an adjustment but trendy does show up in the oddest of places.....and with the personality of the world becoming a caricature of the OK Corral maybe the bucolic landscape of upstate NY is just what a Berkeley man needs....living on the cutting-edge of society can most certainly get tiresome after a while, no? I say "Welcome".....
Last edited by Fallingwater79; 07-01-2007 at 08:59 AM..
WOW! I can't believe there has already been 5 replies to my post on Watkins Glen! This is such a small town that it's easy to feel like nobody besides race fans knows it's even on the map. It's always surprised me at how many tourists we get here! lol bsdfan... There will be pros and cons in WG from what you described as your interests. I understand the urge to relocate to a "better" place when you have a young child as my husband and I have a 4-month old and are also exploring other options. We want the best for our babies don't we! My first reaction is that if you are used to the city life, culture and environment of Berkley, you will be BORED OUT OF YOUR MIND here in WG!!! If you think Saratoga Springs would bore you to live there, it would be doubly so in WG. We have TONS of tourists from late June to the end of October and all seem to do the typical activities. Hike the Gorge Trail, take the wine tours, antiquing, dinner cruise on the lake ect. Then there are the 3-4 weekends a summer where we get blessed with the race enthusiasts such as yourself. Unfortunately, the street system in this town is not equipped to handle the traffic we get on race weekends and we locals just plan to walk everywhere or get OUT of town! lol During the winter and spring though...this town is quite dead. As far as raising a family here, the WG school district (I graduated here class of '99) has some of the most caring teachers you will ever meet! The size of each class has grown considerably since I graduated. I graduated in a class of 104, but the last I heard, the kindergarten class this year has closer to 150! The high school has a brand new sports complex that is open to the community and the sports program has it's strengths and weaknesses. We have, and have for many years, had a STRONG swim/ diving program with many individual students going on to state competitions! Basketball and football are on the upswing and softball and baseball are also making a name for themselves. I myself am going to home school my son because there is a strong support system here for it, and I am not impressed with the values that the local kids/ teenagers are leaving their education experience with. I don't know if the problems I see are nationwide or just strong issues here,but either way i won't expose my child to them. As far as the locals, you will find many different types of small-town minds here. In the outlaying areas you will find mostly your good old down home red-necks. (my dairy farmer dad included in this demographic! lol) In area of Hector and the east side of the lake you have the private cottages and wineries that are the stomping ground of the "wealthy rednecks". They own the wineries and have the lake cottages, boats, and land! You can often find them having keg parties and cruising on their ATV's. The west side of the lake has the wineries and cottages also, but I think the owners are more calm and serene. Here in town there is an even mix of very low income and the "old WG wealth". There are the "families" that seem to own everything and hold the influence in every way. (think mafia style) As far as real estate, I've noticed many houses on the market, but I will advise you that the property taxes in this county (Schuyler) are very high. It's this way in most of NY State though. As far as a franchise-free downtown, it's a small downtown with locally owned businesses, but not big enough to outweigh the HUGE Wal-Mart on the outskirt. There is also a Pizza Hut, Burger King, and Arby's and McDonalds in the Walmart parking lot. It IS a BEAUTIFUL town and Seneca lake is a stunner in the summer and fall! I would DEFINETLY recommend looking into Corning for a GREAT downtown, culture, small city feel with only a half hour drive to the race track! Ithaca has DEFINITE culture with the Ivy League school- Cornell University and Ithaca College. I personally like the classy, quaint downtown of Corning much better than the sometimes ghetto feel of Ithaca. Corning also has less influence of chain stores than Ithaca and an AMAZING grocery store called Wegmans (Ithaca has this store as well) which is much more comparable to the upscale, classy grocery stores I've experienced out west.
I realize that I have given you a TON of information. I agree with every other poster on their impressions of WG. I hope that I have given you enough "flavor" to taste what the area is like here and if you have any more specific questions...feel free to ask me! Good Luck!
P.S. I HATE Syracuse..VERY Ghetto from my experience. Check out Rochester instead for the class and culture it offers.)
Ithaca is a great town, probably the most cultural spot around. Syracuse, not so much.
What type of "culture" are you looking for? Syracuse and the surrounding towns have over 5 times the population of Ithaca's Metro and offer much more of a diversity of things to do IMO.
Here is what I wrote in a previous post about the Syracuse area....
"There are over a dozen lakes, four ski resorts, numerous state and county parks all within an hour drive of Syracuse. Plus the Adirondack Mountains, the Finger Lakes Wine Country, the Thousand Islands resort area, and the Lake Ontario beaches are all within a couple hours drive.
During the Spring, Summer and Fall almost every weekend is filled with local festivals and events. Here's a decent list of most of them.....
P.S. I HATE Syracuse..VERY Ghetto from my experience. Check out Rochester instead for the class and culture it offers.)
That is typical from your in part of the Southern Tier. I have family in Elmira and I'm shocked how bad the media portrays Syracuse down there. Also, since Syracuse doesn't have southern suburbs, the Southern Tier generally believes that Syracuse is just "downtown with a bunch of ghettos surrounding it" since that's all you can see from Interstate 81. They don't realize that the interstates and main roads go through all the bad neighborhoods and there is much more to "Syracuse" that you never see if you don't live here. The major suburbs of Syracuse are to the north. And places like Manlius, Camillus and Baldwinsville are so out of the way that unless you live there, no one from out of the area ever sees these lovely towns.
The only reason you think Rochester is so much better is because unlike people in Syracuse, Rochester residents tout their horn and make sure the rest of the world knows everything that goes on there. People in Syracuse are much more modest and don't proclaim to the world all the positive aspects of living here. In a way, so we can compete, Syracuse needs to become a little more Rochester and start telling outsiders all the things we have to offer.
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This is such a small town that it's easy to feel like nobody besides race fans knows it's even on the map. It's always surprised me at how many tourists we get here! lol
My first reaction is that if you are used to the city life, culture and environment of Berkley, you will be BORED OUT OF YOUR MIND here in WG!!! 
If you think Saratoga Springs would bore you to live there, it would be doubly so in WG. We have TONS of tourists from late June to the end of October and all seem to do the typical activities. Hike the Gorge Trail, take the wine tours, antiquing, dinner cruise on the lake ect. Then there are the 3-4 weekends a summer where we get blessed with the race enthusiasts such as yourself. Unfortunately, the street system in this town is not equipped to handle the traffic we get on race weekends and we locals just plan to walk everywhere or get OUT of town! lol During the winter and spring though...this town is quite dead. As far as raising a family here, the WG school district (I graduated here class of '99) has some of the most caring teachers you will ever meet! The size of each class has grown considerably since I graduated. I graduated in a class of 104, but the last I heard, the kindergarten class this year has closer to 150! The high school has a brand new sports complex that is open to the community and the sports program has it's strengths and weaknesses. We have, and have for many years, had a STRONG swim/ diving program with many individual students going on to state competitions! Basketball and football are on the upswing and softball and baseball are also making a name for themselves. I myself am going to home school my son because there is a strong support system here for it, and I am not impressed with the values that the local kids/ teenagers are leaving their education experience with. I don't know if the problems I see are nationwide or just strong issues here,but either way i won't expose my child to them. As far as the locals, you will find many different types of small-town minds here. In the outlaying areas you will find mostly your good old down home red-necks. (my dairy farmer dad included in this demographic! lol) In area of Hector and the east side of the lake you have the private cottages and wineries that are the stomping ground of the "wealthy rednecks". 
They own the wineries and have the lake cottages, boats, and land! You can often find them having keg parties and cruising on their ATV's. The west side of the lake has the wineries and cottages also, but I think the owners are more calm and serene. Here in town there is an even mix of very low income and the "old WG wealth". There are the "families" that seem to own everything and hold the influence in every way. (think mafia style) As far as real estate, I've noticed many houses on the market, but I will advise you that the property taxes in this county (Schuyler) are very high. It's this way in most of NY State though. As far as a franchise-free downtown, it's a small downtown with locally owned businesses, but not big enough to outweigh the HUGE Wal-Mart on the outskirt. There is also a Pizza Hut, Burger King, and Arby's and McDonalds in the Walmart parking lot. It IS a BEAUTIFUL town and Seneca lake is a stunner in the summer and fall! I would DEFINETLY recommend looking into Corning for a GREAT downtown, culture, small city feel with only a half hour drive to the race track! Ithaca has DEFINITE culture with the Ivy League school- Cornell University and Ithaca College. I personally like the classy, quaint downtown of Corning much better than the sometimes ghetto feel of Ithaca. Corning also has less influence of chain stores than Ithaca and an AMAZING grocery store called Wegmans (Ithaca has this store as well) which is much more comparable to the upscale, classy grocery stores I've experienced out west. 
