Cut my Mother out of my life and feels great (children, present)
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I haven't spoken to my mother in almost four years. I grew up as an only child in a very toxic household; my father was mentally ill (borderline personality disorder + narcissism) and emotionally abusive, and my mother just ignored his behavior. For literally my entire life - until I finally cut him out completely in my mid-30s, we would have massive screaming fights regularly, set off by the most innocuous things - any disagreement, no matter how minor, was liable to set him off into fits of rage. And he would try to hurt me deeply - as a child, if I tried to disengage, he would chase me around the house screaming at me until I burst into tears, or threaten to throw our cat out into the street, threaten to call up my teachers (who generally loved me - I was a straight-A student and really respectful) to tell them how I "really" was... and then of course there were the threats to send me off to military school because I was such a horrible child. Stuff like that.
Instead of defending me, my mother just made excuses - that was how Hungarians are (he was from Hungary); it was always because of "my tone" ... or else she would just deny that anything was the matter at all. For her, everything was my fault, and she never missed an opportunity to complain about how all she ever wanted was peace and quiet - which, the implication was, I was preventing because I wouldn't just kowtow to my father. As his mental illness worsened as he got older, leading to repeated hospitalization, electroshock therapy, etc., my mother basically abandoned me to attend to him. He, of course, manipulated her in order to have her at his beck and call, and she essentially threw me to the curb. As an example, for my college graduation, my father's doctor said he should absolutely not come, but he demanded to fly out - and my mother of course caved because she always did whatever he wanted; as soon as he got to the hotel, he had/feigned a nervous breakdown, so my mother then spent the week attending to his every whim and abandoned me completely. He didn't even come to the graduation ceremony because it was "too cold." Basically, my father wanted my mother's complete attention/love and saw me as a threat, which he was determined to crush.
When I finally cut my father out completely, my mother was furious - she would call me regularly and berate me, trying to get me to buckle to my father's will. After he died, I hoped that things would get better between us, and that without his toxic influence she would start to make some effort to rebuild our relationship. But instead, when I'd come to visit, all she did was criticize me and complain, and after a few years of that I realized that she was incapable of change, and that I needed to distance myself for my own mental health. The last couple of times we spoke on the phone, I just let it loose and told her exactly how I felt - how my father was cruel and abusive and how she was complicit in that abuse - and she as she always did said that there was any abuse at all, that she did absolutely everything she possibly could as a mother, and just blamed our lack of a relationship on me. I told her never to call me again, hung up the phone - and that was the last we spoke.
Since then, she's continued to call and leave voicemails, periodically send me cards, etc - always telling me that she wants to repair our relationship but refusing to take any responsibility whatsoever for her actions over the years. It took me several years to rebuild my emotional reserves and improve my self-esteem, which as a result of my childhood has always been quite low, and now I'm thinking that maybe I should reach out to her. But I honestly don't believe she's changed, and I don't think she'll ever be capable of understanding or accepting how much she's hurt me over the years. I think she's so emotionally invested in her narrative of how difficult I was, and how she's the victim. And I kind of get it - at her age (mid-70s), it's got to be incredibly difficult to admit to yourself that you were a bad parent and that you caused intense emotional damage to your child. It's probably much easier to just tell yourself that your kid is a bad seed and that you're blameless.
I've spent so much time and energy over the years trying to have a rational, normal human relationship with her, and it's never worked. I don't have any faith at all that we'll be able to repair our relationship, but at the same time I don't want this situation to continue. I know I've made a lot of progress repairing my own psyche since I cut off contact, but when I get stressed or depressed I still hear her voice in my head criticizing me for every little thing, and I fear that if I do contact her again, she'll just go back to her usual behavior pattern, and that'll drag me down again.
Anyway, I guess I'm just venting. Thanks for listening. Happy holidays, everyone.
So your situation was just like mine, except with the opposite parent. My mother is probably also borderline. Everything I underlined here applies to her. Actually, I take that back. Your mother has made more of an effort than mine. My mother doesn't call. The last card she sent for my birthday, she insulted me in the card. Nothing for Christmas, which is fine, because she gets the message now.
My father was passive and tried to avoid confrontation. So now there's me, a passive (not as much now), avoider with low self esteem. No wonder I'm divorced. It pisses me off beyond words that this is my life and it took me so long to learn how to change. I'm almost 50, and have no family. I'm not saying I'm a victim anymore, but it is a shame you can't choose your family. I could have been a well adjusted, confident man with a family, but my family of origin set me back many years. I take responsibility for not working harder to figure it out 20 years ago. Then again, I was also unaware then and didn't have the resources either. I wish I'd had a personal mentor in my life to guide me.
First, OP I am very sorry that you and your mother are estranged. That is always a sad situation - for both parties even if you don't recognize that right now - but I am glad you have found a way to cope with it for now. Despite what seems to be your current intent to let that be the way it is forever more though, I do hope an opportunity to revisit may come up down the line - for both your sakes (and the sake of any future children you may have as well).
Second, there is always more than one side to the story. I have just read a very long thread (not the first one either) where mothers/parents talk about how they are sad or angry that they are estranged from their kids. Believe me, I 'get that' because my daughter who is 33 refuses to discuss anything and has chosen to withdraw over issues that I am fairly sure could be resolved if she was just open to doing so. It goes both ways. I think she thinks I am some kind of ogre - but that is based on incomplete information and scenarios she recalls from childhood when everything may seem much more dramatic than it actually was. It could be though that she has legitimate grievances however if she clams up and won't talk about them, those cannot be addressed either and I cannot apologize or get to see how certain things may have affected her.
Third, aside from when there are very valid (i.e. sexual abuse, extreme physical or emotional abuse, major mental illness, drugs/alcohol, etc.) reasons for estrangement, I firmly believe 'where there is a will, there is a way' IF both parties want to find it and work on it. The problem as I see it is when one party gives up or magnifies everything to the point that the other has no chance of ever explaining what may have happened no matter how hard they try.
Additionally, when a parent and a child have very different personalities, or are perhaps almost too similar if similar means both are stubborn, it can be more difficult to fix old wounds - but I really think most people should try because if you don't, you may regret that down the line.
I know that when I was a child I saw things quite differently than I did when I grew up and even more so when I had my own kids. No child or parent is perfect and often parenting is one big experiment, going with the flow according to the situation at hand - and we all make mistakes .. kids and parents alike. These days though I think there may actually be more estrangement than there used to be because society (and the school system) trains children to believe that even a swat on the backside once in a while is worthy of calling 911 - so I think there is more 'overreaction' in many cases. Couple that with an unwillingness on the part of one or both parties to discuss issues rationally and estrangement is often entrenched rather than resolved.
Most of us with estranged parents are treated as though we just need to get over whatever petty issue it is we have. If we would just listen to their explanation, we would understand.
I've heard some of my moms explanations. They are usually ridiculous. And she believes completely justified. Since I've had children of my own, I've found it even harder to forgive some of her choices and actions.
There are more estrangements today because more of us have realized that we aren't bound by society's expectations that we allow them to treat us this way without question anymore.
I'm sorry that things didn't work out with your daughter. I know what it's like to wish you had the sort of mother-daughter relationship that others enjoy. I don't know why things didn't work out between you. I only know that my own mother feels exactly like you do, and it's not because she's right, it's because she just doesn't believe that she is actually wrong.
First, OP I am very sorry that you and your mother are estranged. That is always a sad situation - for both parties even if you don't recognize that right now - but I am glad you have found a way to cope with it for now. Despite what seems to be your current intent to let that be the way it is forever more though, I do hope an opportunity to revisit may come up down the line - for both your sakes (and the sake of any future children you may have as well).
Second, there is always more than one side to the story. I have just read a very long thread (not the first one either) where mothers/parents talk about how they are sad or angry that they are estranged from their kids. Believe me, I 'get that' because my daughter who is 33 refuses to discuss anything and has chosen to withdraw over issues that I am fairly sure could be resolved if she was just open to doing so. It goes both ways. I think she thinks I am some kind of ogre - but that is based on incomplete information and scenarios she recalls from childhood when everything may seem much more dramatic than it actually was. It could be though that she has legitimate grievances however if she clams up and won't talk about them, those cannot be addressed either and I cannot apologize or get to see how certain things may have affected her.
Third, aside from when there are very valid (i.e. sexual abuse, extreme physical or emotional abuse, major mental illness, drugs/alcohol, etc.) reasons for estrangement, I firmly believe 'where there is a will, there is a way' IF both parties want to find it and work on it. The problem as I see it is when one party gives up or magnifies everything to the point that the other has no chance of ever explaining what may have happened no matter how hard they try.
Additionally, when a parent and a child have very different personalities, or are perhaps almost too similar if similar means both are stubborn, it can be more difficult to fix old wounds - but I really think most people should try because if you don't, you may regret that down the line.
I know that when I was a child I saw things quite differently than I did when I grew up and even more so when I had my own kids. No child or parent is perfect and often parenting is one big experiment, going with the flow according to the situation at hand - and we all make mistakes .. kids and parents alike. These days though I think there may actually be more estrangement than there used to be because society (and the school system) trains children to believe that even a swat on the backside once in a while is worthy of calling 911 - so I think there is more 'overreaction' in many cases. Couple that with an unwillingness on the part of one or both parties to discuss issues rationally and estrangement is often entrenched rather than resolved.
I understand what you're saying. My mother and I do have very different personalities, and I am the rational one. I've actually even improved my own communication skills and not being defensive (like my mother is any time she's confronted). I'm not confrontational, but if she wants to know why I won't have a relationship with her I will tell her in the most calm, diplomatic, clear way possible. She flies off the handle every time. One thing I didn't mention is I think she's a functional alcoholic, so there's that too. She used to send offensive emails after she had a few drinks to many members of the family. My brother has her personality (irrational, quick temper, personality disorders, selfish) and so they no longer speak either. She tells all her friends (most of whom I don't know or care about) how awful her sons are. The ones who know her and I know better. My brother, who knows what they think. Not my concern.
I've thought a lot about my mother's upbringing and how bad it was. Parents divorced at 5, Father an alcoholic, mother hated men and had her own personality problems. But at some point a person has to take responsibility and at least try to grow and see other points of view. She refuses. At 75 years old, its not going to happen, and that's ok. I accept it, but I won't have a relationship with her.
Hedge Hog Mom said: I didn't meet my mother-in-law until I had been married 14 years. It turns out there's a very valid reason that she was not a part of my husband's life, and we decided eventually that it was better to go back to having no contact with her. It was hard to believe she was as horrible as he said she was, and she wasn't...she was worse.
Word. Sometimes it's really obvious like above. However my mother is charming on the surface and most people that don't know her well think that she's great. Bzzzzt! Wrong. If she turns her wrath on you, it's like standing in the portal to hell and madness. Since birth I've been on my mother's sh*t list. I know better.
OP my mother is exactly like yours. She launches soul crushing insults and attacks and then makes it about my "over-sensitivity" and fragility when I don't come groveling to lick her hand like a beaten dog. She then goes into a self pity party about my distancing. She gets my siblings involved because they are concerned about "sad" mom. If I try to straighten things out as the OP did, it turns out exactly like the OP's situation did.
The reason the OP is confused about how his mom is saying that she cut him off is just more of the turn the tables on the victim crap that these narcissists excel at. OP I understand more than you know. It took 58 years to just be done with it. To be told that I don't deserve my husband (this was 4 months ago) who I have a loving relationship with, was just the end of it. My husband who previously walked on water with her incurred her wrath when he stood up for me.
For the folks that say that we owe it to ourselves to make up to our abusers because they are old or aging are off the mark. I suspect what I will feel is relief when she passes away. I no longer believe that I need to lay on the altar as sacrifice to her rage to keep family peace. Let her choose another victim. I'm done.
All those sad parents referred to above, I'm sorry. You may have a troubled child but I know for sure that my mother would be the entire chorus of self pity in such a group. I've done nothing but haul her water and try to stand up for myself when she went on attack mode but no longer.
Lbjen I tried to rep you but I've done it too many times already.....
I can relate Antiguy39. I did the same thing in my 20's. Well actually long before I moved out of my childhood home. My parents were abusive alcoholics and I spent most of my childhood hating them and ducking and hiding. My mother was the worst of the two of them only because my father was out in the bars all weekend. Put the two of them together and it was like living in my own private war zone.
The only advice I can give you is stick to your convictions and be careful that the dysfunction doesn't follow you into a relationship. I tried so hard to put that life behind me and thought I had done so when I met the love of my life. It totally blew my mind when his family turned out to be just as dysfunctional as mine was, complete with alcoholism and toxic people. That wonderful dream I had of finally having a family died forever that night. I tried so hard to distance myself from that dysfunction and I was smack dab in the middle of it again. His whole family was banished from my life and my husband nearly was a couple of times because that baggage came with him, and he had elements of that personality that was not going to work in my universe. It didn't matter how much he disliked his family, he still acted like them in many ways. You see people like us who come from poor role models are the ones that have the most difficult times in relationships. We're emotionally handicapped, and it can take decades to work out the kinks.
Always try to be cognizant of the dysfunction that will most likely occur in your life, not only with you, but with others like you. I never saw it coming with John and his family because those familiar patterns are so ingrained. You have a long road of self discovery ahead, and a long road of undoing the damage. You can have a successful marriage if you put in the work and do some strong soul searching. Good luck to you dear one.
I honestly cannot relate to what you are going through, because despite the normal roller coaster of life our family has always been a very strong and loving one. I'm sorry what you've been through, yet you get a pat on the back for what appears to be your inner strength carrying you forward.
Hedge Hog Mom said: I didn't meet my mother-in-law until I had been married 14 years. It turns out there's a very valid reason that she was not a part of my husband's life, and we decided eventually that it was better to go back to having no contact with her. It was hard to believe she was as horrible as he said she was, and she wasn't...she was worse.
Word. Sometimes it's really obvious like above. However my mother is charming on the surface and most people that don't know her well think that she's great. Bzzzzt! Wrong. If she turns her wrath on you, it's like standing in the portal to hell and madness. Since birth I've been on my mother's sh*t list. I know better.
OP my mother is exactly like yours. She launches soul crushing insults and attacks and then makes it about my "over-sensitivity" and fragility when I don't come groveling to lick her hand like a beaten dog. She then goes into a self pity party about my distancing. She gets my siblings involved because they are concerned about "sad" mom. If I try to straighten things out as the OP did, it turns out exactly like the OP's situation did.
The reason the OP is confused about how his mom is saying that she cut him off is just more of the turn the tables on the victim crap that these narcissists excel at. OP I understand more than you know. It took 58 years to just be done with it. To be told that I don't deserve my husband (this was 4 months ago) who I have a loving relationship with, was just the end of it. My husband who previously walked on water with her incurred her wrath when he stood up for me.
For the folks that say that we owe it to ourselves to make up to our abusers because they are old or aging are off the mark. I suspect what I will feel is relief when she passes away. I no longer believe that I need to lay on the altar as sacrifice to her rage to keep family peace. Let her choose another victim. I'm done.
All those sad parents referred to above, I'm sorry. You may have a troubled child but I know for sure that my mother would be the entire chorus of self pity in such a group. I've done nothing but haul her water and try to stand up for myself when she went on attack mode but no longer.
Lbjen I tried to rep you but I've done it too many times already.....
Yes! Cathy, you totally get it. I honestly don't know how she has any friends. I guess its just different for them since they're not family. I'll also be relieved when my mother passes away. Amazed she doesn't have emphysema or lung cancer from all the smoking, another thing I can't stand. Worse, when I was still visiting her, she didn't care that I was health conscious or allergic to the smoke. Refused to see anything from my point of view and at least go outside to smoke. Its all about her.
I am sorry to hear of this mate and now at last I can finally see and understand where your lack of confidence comes from
To be honest I think yes it will come up with any lady you meet and are serious with especially but I'm sure she would understand it completely and wouldn't press you on it as naturally it's a sore spot...... I really can't see her judging you or having any negative feelings on this if that's what's worrying you?.
We've talked at length I know but will say again that I'm really glad you're in a better place now than you was and finally getting to a place where you want to be
As ever I only wish you well mate
Yeah, I guess thats a big piece I left out in our conversations. It won't be a sore spot for me because I've done a lot of work on this and I know I've tried. It is what it is. I just don't want to be negatively judged by it. I think when a woman sees how I am with my niece, as well as other people, animals, etc., she'll be ok with it (I hope).
Just wanted to send out some support to the OP and others who have written of toxic, dysfunctional families. I support your determination to get and be strong, despite your upbringing. And if cutting your family member(s) off is the most healthy thing for your psyche, then that is what you have to do. Sometimes, there isn't a happy ending/reunion, etc. We have to face reality and do what is best to help ourselves survive and thrive in this world.
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