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I had an assistant for ten years. She was absolutely wonderful. Hard-working, conscientious, funny, creative, and had an amazing attitude. We became very good friends in our professional life. She passed away several years ago and I still miss her. She just made work fun.
In our many conversations, we typically avoided discussing our marriages. That's just a boundary you just don't cross. But one time, we had a long eight-hour drive to a client meeting and got to talking. She asked how my wife and I did things in terms of decision making.
Since my wife is a CPA and the CFO of a largish real estate company, the money is pretty much her domain. I don't abdicate my right to chime in, but she knows her stuff. When Kellie heard this, she said, "Oh, wow. That wouldn't fly with Keith."
What? As it turns out, her fundamentalist husband believed strongly in a husband-led marriage, as in making all the decisions. While that might have been the norm in 1st Century Palestine, it's a stupid concept in 21st Century America. I mean, the Bible accepted the reality of slavery back then, too. Does that mean it's acceptable today as well?
So during this long car ride, she started unloading on me. For example, when their first child was born, they lived close to town near their jobs. But her mother-in-law offered to take care of the baby if they'd move close to her. No discussion, no nothing. The next thing Kellie knows, Keith is putting their home up for sale and moving them down the street from his family out in the sticks. So whereas Kellie previously had a five-minute to work, it was now an hour-long slog.
Three weeks after they move home, the MIL reneges on the arrangement, saying she just couldn't handle childcare duties any longer. Yet Keith refused to move back into town. So Kellie spent the next 18 years driving an hour to work and back, almost until the day she died. This town was so backwards that it didn't even have a coffee shop, so she would always stop off at Starbucks before getting into the office. To you and me, Starbucks is kind of meh. To her, it was the very emblem of luxury that was unavailable to her where she lived.
One of our clients was the local symphony. For one performance, we got four free tickets. Kellie had never been to the symphony, so we all went together. It was a great performance and Kellie was dazzled by it. In the party after the performance, there were waiters passing out champagne flutes. My wife had one, I had one, and Kellie decided to have one. Keith just about had a fit in the middle of the party. Whenever we traveled on business, I would typically have a martini or a glass of wine at dinner. Meanwhile, Kellie would say, "I'd like to try that, but I have to answer to my husband."
She earned a good salary, but her husband gave her an allowance. We went to a trade show in Las Vegas, and he forbid her to spend time in a casino, even dictating what shows she could attend at night after our work was done. As in he would look at the shows we were considering online and tell her which ones he thought appropriate.
He also suspected that we were having an affair (We weren't. Not even a hint), to the point that Kellie woke up in the middle of the night caught him going through her e-mails and text messages to me. Of course, he found nothing, because there was nothing going on between us. But it practically took an act of Congress for her to go on business trips to, you know, do her job. In addition to Las Vegas, we went on something like a dozen business trips together. Every single time, she needed Keith's okay.
I mean, one time we were heading back to the office after a client appointment. It was nearly Christmas, and I needed to stop by my church to pick up something. Being an Episcopalian, we have decidedly different views than the Fundamentalists on a host of things. So we walk into the church offices to pick up a package and happen to encounter our female priest. While I excused myself to go to the restroom, Kellie and Danielle had a nice discussion. Then she asked if she could see the inside of the sanctuary. It's a beautiful, graceful worship space with stained glass windows. She wandered through there and just admired the place.
So when she excitedly recounted the visit to Keith, he evidently hit the roof that she even crossed the threshold of the place. So the next time I had to run an errand at my church, she waited in the car.
And this was for an educated woman who, in every other aspect of her life was a strong-willed person. But when it came to her husband's word, she the demeanor of a whipped dog. I don't think he was physically abusive, but he sure had her under his thumb.
When she died, my wife and I went to the funeral in some backwoods church. What we experienced was less of a funeral and more of a long and sustained meditation on hell and damnation for those people who didn't shape up and go to church. Mind you, I'm a professing Christian who fully subscribes to the Nicene Creed, but this was so far removed from the humane and kind stripe of Christianity I follow that I wondered if we were actually using the same Bible.
After the funeral, my wife said, "Well, I was all prepared to weep buckets at Kellie's funeral. Now I'm just mad."
I had an assistant for ten years. She was absolutely wonderful. Hard-working, conscientious, funny, creative, and had an amazing attitude. We became very good friends in our professional life. She passed away several years ago and I still miss her. She just made work fun.
When she died, my wife and I went to the funeral in some backwoods church. What we experienced was less of a funeral and more of a long and sustained meditation on hell and damnation for those people who didn't shape up and go to church. Mind you, I'm a professing Christian who fully subscribes to the Nicene Creed, but this was so far removed from the humane and kind stripe of Christianity I follow that I wondered if we were actually using the same Bible.
After the funeral, my wife said, "Well, I was all prepared to weep buckets at Kellie's funeral. Now I'm just mad."
This was a controlling and abusive husband who hid behind a religion and a bible that worked in his favor.
She stayed in the abusive relationship.
To the OP, I don't know a single female who would listen to anyone else who would sabatage their career let alone a husband.
Actually, I do. In the veritable buckle of the Bible Belt. It's just not that commonplace here, either. So don't stereotype us.
I grew up in Texas and live in Virginia. I've seen Bible-led marriages many times. Sometimes they work fine, but often they are abused by the husband, who observed how Daddy treated the wife. I'm an Episcopalian too and when I first became aware of these marriages it was truly shocking. But as an adult I have met women who are in them and don't necessarily suffer.
I had an assistant for ten years. She was absolutely wonderful. Hard-working, conscientious, funny, creative, and had an amazing attitude. We became very good friends in our professional life. She passed away several years ago and I still miss her. She just made work fun.
In our many conversations, we typically avoided discussing our marriages. That's just a boundary you just don't cross. But one time, we had a long eight-hour drive to a client meeting and got to talking. She asked how my wife and I did things in terms of decision making.
Since my wife is a CPA and the CFO of a largish real estate company, the money is pretty much her domain. I don't abdicate my right to chime in, but she knows her stuff. When Kellie heard this, she said, "Oh, wow. That wouldn't fly with Keith."
What? As it turns out, her fundamentalist husband believed strongly in a husband-led marriage, as in making all the decisions. While that might have been the norm in 1st Century Palestine, it's a stupid concept in 21st Century America. I mean, the Bible accepted the reality of slavery back then, too. Does that mean it's acceptable today as well?
So during this long car ride, she started unloading on me. For example, when their first child was born, they lived close to town near their jobs. But her mother-in-law offered to take care of the baby if they'd move close to her. No discussion, no nothing. The next thing Kellie knows, Keith is putting their home up for sale and moving them down the street from his family out in the sticks. So whereas Kellie previously had a five-minute to work, it was now an hour-long slog.
Three weeks after they move home, the MIL reneges on the arrangement, saying she just couldn't handle childcare duties any longer. Yet Keith refused to move back into town. So Kellie spent the next 18 years driving an hour to work and back, almost until the day she died. This town was so backwards that it didn't even have a coffee shop, so she would always stop off at Starbucks before getting into the office. To you and me, Starbucks is kind of meh. To her, it was the very emblem of luxury that was unavailable to her where she lived.
One of our clients was the local symphony. For one performance, we got four free tickets. Kellie had never been to the symphony, so we all went together. It was a great performance and Kellie was dazzled by it. In the party after the performance, there were waiters passing out champagne flutes. My wife had one, I had one, and Kellie decided to have one. Keith just about had a fit in the middle of the party. Whenever we traveled on business, I would typically have a martini or a glass of wine at dinner. Meanwhile, Kellie would say, "I'd like to try that, but I have to answer to my husband."
She earned a good salary, but her husband gave her an allowance. We went to a trade show in Las Vegas, and he forbid her to spend time in a casino, even dictating what shows she could attend at night after our work was done. As in he would look at the shows we were considering online and tell her which ones he thought appropriate.
He also suspected that we were having an affair (We weren't. Not even a hint), to the point that Kellie woke up in the middle of the night caught him going through her e-mails and text messages to me. Of course, he found nothing, because there was nothing going on between us. But it practically took an act of Congress for her to go on business trips to, you know, do her job. In addition to Las Vegas, we went on something like a dozen business trips together. Every single time, she needed Keith's okay.
I mean, one time we were heading back to the office after a client appointment. It was nearly Christmas, and I needed to stop by my church to pick up something. Being an Episcopalian, we have decidedly different views than the Fundamentalists on a host of things. So we walk into the church offices to pick up a package and happen to encounter our female priest. While I excused myself to go to the restroom, Kellie and Danielle had a nice discussion. Then she asked if she could see the inside of the sanctuary. It's a beautiful, graceful worship space with stained glass windows. She wandered through there and just admired the place.
So when she excitedly recounted the visit to Keith, he evidently hit the roof that she even crossed the threshold of the place. So the next time I had to run an errand at my church, she waited in the car.
And this was for an educated woman who, in every other aspect of her life was a strong-willed person. But when it came to her husband's word, she the demeanor of a whipped dog. I don't think he was physically abusive, but he sure had her under his thumb.
When she died, my wife and I went to the funeral in some backwoods church. What we experienced was less of a funeral and more of a long and sustained meditation on hell and damnation for those people who didn't shape up and go to church. Mind you, I'm a professing Christian who fully subscribes to the Nicene Creed, but this was so far removed from the humane and kind stripe of Christianity I follow that I wondered if we were actually using the same Bible.
After the funeral, my wife said, "Well, I was all prepared to weep buckets at Kellie's funeral. Now I'm just mad."
This post is so exactly what I'd originally written. I just find it so sad that women in our society, where there truly is freedom, to agree to be subjugated to their husband's wishes. Thank you so much for sharing this story in detail.
You're divorced. She's married. Perhaps she prefers the perquisites of being married to the uncertain fate of a divorced woman in the world. Look at what you've been through.
Or perhaps she's suffering from crippling depression and would benefit from medication. Oh, wait, that would be me.
Actually, she's on a bunch of medication. She even talks to her two daughters about how mommy needs to take her happy pills, which I find to be awful.
Just the other day, she was frustrated with her oldest daughter who she told to text her other daughter while we were on the phone. The daughter ignored her and continued to text her friend.
Then, my friend hollered at her daughter with a bunch of f-bombs. It was honestly appalling and I was in shock how she spoke to her daughter. I made a comment about how "Whoa, mommy is using the f-bomb" and she just explained why she was mad at her daughter.
But, we were on the phone before she arrived to pick up her daughters. And while we were on the phone, her daughter came to the car and told her how she'd done so well in track compared to the week before. My friend, her mom, barely acknowledged that. I had heard her and said "Wow! Amazing! She really kicked butt! Or something to that effect.
So, my friend took about 5 seconds to acknowledge that yes, that was good. Now, text your sister.
So, in my opinion, the daughter ignored her and texted her friend, probably saying what a jerk her mother is, and waited to get real attention from her mother, even if it was only in getting a heated response including f-bombs.
But, sure, she might be thinking that her life might be harder and more like mine if she wasn't married. But, logically, how can it be better if her career is destroyed?
She shared with me that they very rarely even have sex anymore. So, I just don't get why she stays with him.
All I can think of is that it may be a religious thing, she's Catholic, and may honestly think she shouldn't get divorced - although, she's told me that she's threatened him with divorce many times.
But, I just wonder if she and women like her think it might be some kind of proof of failure or a self-esteem thing.
Oddly, I have always suffered from self-esteem, but have always been really strong on people not treating me unfairly.
I guess the human experience is just different for everyone.
Part of me is concerned about the message she sends her daughters. I had a really good counselor once tell me that however I deal with life in front of my daughter, that's how I'm telling her she should deal with life.
So, when my friend yelled at her with f-bombs, she was teaching her that when she gets frustrated or angry, it's okay to yell at that person with f-bombs. Although, the weird thing is, she and her daughter would both know that's not okay with everyone. But, only with people close to you - or that you supposedly love.
I just think it's a sad mess.
But, I think the main thing is my friend knows on some level what's really happening here - that her marriage was a big mistake - but she can't face it, and her anger and frustration comes out sideways.
So, somebody sent this message my way about my earlier post: "how would your friend feel if she knew you posted this about her? honest question, not snark."
Well, of course it's snark.
But given how: 1) both my friend and her husband are now dead, 2) I used a fictional name for both, 3) that this board is anonymous, and 4) this is a forum for discussing relationship issues, I'm not certain why it's even necessary to ask. Does this mean that, on a board about relationships, we're not allowed to discuss relationships of those we know?
To heck with them. Your post was super helpful to me. Thanks.
So women never give their husband's bad career advice?
Could be. But, I'm in my 60's and have never witnessed a man lose his career because he felt compelled to take really bad advise from his wife in order to keep her from leaving him, or because society or his religion said he should always do what she said, no matter what.
This was a controlling and abusive husband who hid behind a religion and a bible that worked in his favor.
She stayed in the abusive relationship.
To the OP, I don't know a single female who would listen to anyone else who would sabatage their career let alone a husband.
Simply put, it is controlling and that is abuse.
I agree. Unfortunately, I've known several. Maybe it's my age. I'm in my 60's.
But, I've known women in high-level, very high paying jobs make really stupid decisions based on threats or bad advice or pressure from husbands. My belief is their husbands were insecure about their relationships and their motives were based on trying to keep their wife from being able to leave them.
I'm talking about situations that were obvious to the majority of reasonable people - where the majority of reasonable people would think that was happening was wrong.
I grew up in Texas and live in Virginia. I've seen Bible-led marriages many times. Sometimes they work fine, but often they are abused by the husband, who observed how Daddy treated the wife. I'm an Episcopalian too and when I first became aware of these marriages it was truly shocking. But as an adult I have met women who are in them and don't necessarily suffer.
Thank you for this post.
What I guess we should all realize is that there isn't one religion - that I'm aware of - where the rules say that a man should always do what his wife says.
There isn't even a religion I know of that says that their decisions should be agreed on 50/50.
Fortunately, some states say their assets should be divided 50/50.
But, my friend's husband is now sabotaging their co-owned home - while always keeping his previously-owned home separate - and getting her to agree to decisions that will probably devastate the only equity she has.
In other words, they will shortly blow through the only jointly owned money they have, so she won't be able to afford to leave him.
I think her stress level and anger fits against her mother and daughters (her mom lives with them), is all unconscious sideways anger at what should be directed at her husband.
But, she'll allow him to blow through their savings, sell the only asset that will allow her to divorce him, and she'll be stuck with him - until he finds someone young and stupid that he'll file for divorce over.
I just really believe on an unconscious level she knows what's happening here, but she just can't consciously accept or deal with it.
That situation doesn't sound good. I would rather be divorced.
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