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I'm not sure who you're directing your comments at...everyone who who responded, I suppose. So, since I responded, I'll respond again. First, you should ease up on the sanctimonious, self congratulatory attitude. Your opinion isn't the capital "T" truth.
Second, I didn't see anyone attempting to excuse anything, but to simply provide some context. Despite what you apparently think about yourself, no one is all good, nor all bad. No group of people are all bad, nor all good. The north wasn't all good, and the south wasn't all bad. In order to truly understand history, one must be willing to accept shades of gray. Reality is nuanced.
I think its sad that you are simply looking to demonize one group, and beatify another. That's truly a lack of critical thought.
I also think, as I've said before, that there are far more real issues that the damn Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia. Wiping it off the face of the earth will change nothing. But of course, you, the great thinker, don't even seem to want to acknowledge those issues.
if I could continuously give you reputation I would lol. I agree with every one of your points. people these days seem to think if you aren't liberal like them you are extremely backwards. you sound a lot like my history teacher from 8th grade now he was a very smart man learned a lot from him. the north had things like indentured servants for instance which very much was like slavery no I am not saying it was as cruel or inhumane as slavery but it still was pretty bad. not to mention peoples racist attitudes against southern European immigrants in the early 1900s in the north. people make it seem like the south was the worst and the north did nothing wrong ever.
Yes. And I'm not responsible for their actions. Nor they for mine. Nor me for yours, etc.
Interesting time in history, I need to study up on it more. I wonder if the people who were slaves were pretty much treated like livestock? Did they live in a barn with little heat in the winter? If they got sick and couldn't work what happened to them? My family was poor and lived in Alabama, bet they worked alongside those people your folks owned.
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
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Here's the thing. A government flag for the Confederacy wouldn't ruffle as many feathers as the battle flag. Why? Well during the war, under the battle flag captured members of the US Colored troops were killed rather than taken prisoner. Keep in mind that regiments from Maryland, Delaware, Kentucky, Missouri, Tennessee, West Virginia, NJ, etc. fought under the Union banner & each one of those states or commonwealths had slaves. Yes NJ still had a handful because when forced to free their slaves they chose manumission - the same method that NC was looking at before the war.
What's REALLY behind the debate about the Confederate Flag?
All this talk about "Heritage" doesn't ring true when folks discount the issue of slavery and all the terrorism and savagery that kept it in place.
Perhaps it's more that the Confederacy never died?
The Confederacy is still very much alive. It was never dismantled after the Civil War.
How would we feel if Nazi Germany INSISTED on continuing to fly that bloody swastika?
Perhaps the bigger questions are:
1. ) Can people ever fully let go of their pride of white supremacy?
2.) Can people have a larger concept of themselves to draw their identity from?
What's behind it? It's just the latest coordinated initiative by the media to capitalize on a terrible event, and it's designed to further divide the country along racial lines. It's pretty obvious. I personally find it to be disgusting. I'm not a fan of the flag, but the effort to rid it from society is not a grassroots movement by any stretch.
You joined today and already made 7 posts, all regarding southern racism and the confederate flag. What's your agenda?
if I could continuously give you reputation I would lol. I agree with every one of your points. people these days seem to think if you aren't liberal like them you are extremely backwards. you sound a lot like my history teacher from 8th grade now he was a very smart man learned a lot from him. the north had things like indentured servants for instance which very much was like slavery no I am not saying it was as cruel or inhumane as slavery but it still was pretty bad. not to mention peoples racist attitudes against southern European immigrants in the early 1900s in the north. people make it seem like the south was the worst and the north did nothing wrong ever.
No. People make it seem like the South was objectively more guilty in all of this than the North, which is true, especially when you consider that while the North at one time did have slaves, they actively began moving to get rid of the institution. The South was so wedded to their economic and social system as to be willing to completely detach itself from its former country and spill the blood of their former countrymen. Far more tragic than heroic, and seems more deserving of pity than approbation.
Also, don't compare chattel slavery to indentured servitude, regardless of your qualifications. Indentured servitude was typically voluntary, contracted, and temporary. Not even remotely the same.
And what is this about racist attitudes against Southern European immigrants in the early 1900s in the North? Whitewashing based on a loose watching of The Godfather are we?
Obviously the Nativist movement's primary base of support was in the South, not the North. So much so that barring upstate New York and parts of southern Pennsylvania, support for the party was almost non-existent in much of the North.
Don't get me wrong, the North has its darkside in all of this, but please don't imply that racism against recent immigrants is the North's unique equivalent to slavery in the South.
As a current teacher, I feel duty bound to add that, while I don't find illiberal thinking backwards, I can't quite say the same for consistently failing to capitalize the first letter of the first word in a sentence. A couple of typos or grammatical mistakes is one thing, but come on!
What's behind it? It's just the latest coordinated initiative by the media to capitalize on a terrible event, and it's designed to further divide the country along racial lines. It's pretty obvious. I personally find it to be disgusting. I'm not a fan of the flag, but the effort to rid it from society is not a grassroots movement by any stretch.
You joined today and already made 7 posts, all regarding southern racism and the confederate flag. What's your agenda?
Coordinated initiative? The confederate flag has no business on any state or government property asides from being in a museum. The media is rightfully exposing those using the term "heritage" to justify public display of a flag representative of a group of people that committed treason against the Union (United States of America).
If anything, it's actually bringing people/races together and some to their senses. Prior to that horrific event many people still hid (and still do) behind the term "heritage" instead of properly addressing it's true meaning and destructive symbolism in American history.
Wholeheartedly listening and recognizing the magnitude of the problem is the first step, then advance beyond the denial stage....only took 9 law-abiding God-fearing people getting murdered in Bible Study to truly hit home that this sh*t is a problem. It by no means is the whole problem but a huge part of the problem. When I saw the picture of this twisted racist burning the American flag while draping himself in the confederate flag I knew those flags were coming down.
It by no means is the whole problem but a huge part of the problem.
No, its simply an easy target. Please don't delude yourself into thinking that removing the confederate battle flag from the statehouse grounds in Columbia is going to have anything other than a imperceptible impact on the problems of race relations and gun violence in this country.
I don't consider secession treason at the time as it was understood by many the us was a voluntary congregation of the states. The whole question of the union as indivisible was exactly what the war was fought over
Its only after the fact we come to see it as treason
As usual, Jon Stewart is on point:
""They fought for the South against the United States because of slavery. That's the heritage you're defending. I'm sure your soldier ancestors had other redeeming qualities, but this is the thing that they're known for. It'd be like saying you support flying the Nazi flag because you're proud of their robust anti-smoking agenda. But that wasn't really their thing."---Jon Stewart
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