Do you consider Fredericksburg/Stafford as Northern Virginia? (Arlington, Hampton: apartment, how much)

[rawkdude1]

No, it is not part of Northern Virginia

[Alley01]

Originally Posted by va_lucky

How do we figure that Stafford and Fredericksburg are closer to Richmond than D.C? I live in semi-rural Spotsylvania and looking at the map I am located almost exactly between the 2 to the degree where it is almost impossible to tell which is closer. Google Maps seems to reflect the same when I check directions. The Fredericksburg area is an exurb of both DC and Richmond as far as I can see. It is undeniably a bedroom community to D.C. A fellow I used to know brought up a good point. He mentioned that if anything happened to D.C., most of the Fredericksburg area residents would have nowhere to work.

I see the Fredericksburg area as being sort of a Laurel, MD since Laurel is pretty well centrally located between DC and Baltimore. Although the scale is much larger for the Fredericksburg area. To me, the idea is the same.

Another reason that people live this far out is due to housing costs. At the time I bought my house, I could only afford to have a yard for my kids in the Fredericksburg area. At some point, that changed and housing was as cheap in Woodbridge as it was in the Fredericksburg area. Now that has changed again.

If housing costs are your reason, are you really saving the money you expected by not just buying a more expensive house and not dealing with the excessive commute costs, not to mention the time it takes to drive that far? I just don't see how anyone can do a cost benefit analysis and move that far and deal with that commute just because houses are a bit cheaper. Are you grumpy all the time? I sure would be after days like that!

[e2ksj3]

I voted yes. At one time no, but with all the growth down there (along with the traffic) they are definitely part of NoVA. At one time, Loudoun and PW Counties were considered "far" from traditional NoVa suburbs of Alexandria and Arlington but now we considered those as part of NoVA. Fredericksburg/Stafford are at the "tipping" point where you are starting to see more diversity in the area like the rest of NoVA. Besides the official census considers them as part of the Washington Metro area.

[Carlingtonian]

Originally Posted by e2ksj3

I voted yes. At one time no, but with all the growth down there (along with the traffic) they are definitely part of NoVA.

So having a lot of residents and traffic and being within a physically possible commute to DC makes it NoVA? By that logic, Baltimore is part of NoVA.

How many people in F'burg actually commute to DC? I'm guessing far more commute to jobs outside the Beltway in Virginia.

[e2ksj3]

Originally Posted by Carlingtonian

So having a lot of residents and traffic and being within a physically possible commute to DC makes it NoVA? By that logic, Baltimore is part of NoVA.

How many people in F'burg actually commute to DC? I'm guessing far more commute to jobs outside the Beltway in Virginia.

Well technically they are in the same CSA (Washington-Baltimore-Northern Virginia), so kind of yeah. When people usually refer to Northern Virginia they are specifically talking about the Washington suburbs of Virginia, so yeah Stafford and Fredericksburg would be included since they are in Virginia. I know lots of people that commute to Washington or a major job center like Tysons Corner. Why do you think they are expanding the express lanes down to Stafford & have VRE service to DC?

[Carlingtonian]

Originally Posted by e2ksj3

Well technically they are in the same CSA (Washington-Baltimore-Northern Virginia), so kind of yeah. When people usually refer to Northern Virginia they are specifically talking about the Washington suburbs of Virginia, so yeah Stafford and Fredericksburg would be included since they are in Virginia. I know lots of people that commute to Washington or a major job center like Tysons Corner. Why do you think they are expanding the express lanes down to Stafford & have VRE service to DC?

Exactly: They commute to Tyson's Corner or Ft. Belvoir or Dulles, etc--not DC. Thus F-burg isn't in the Greater DC area. And as you said, "Northern Virginia" equates to "the Virginia part of Greater DC."

Because if one makes the criterion "city with a lot of commuters who work in a suburb of DC," then there is no border at all. If Fredericksburg by that measure is in NoVA, then what about people in Hampton Roads who commute to F'burg? Are they too in NoVA?

[va_lucky]

There are busses and tons of vanpools. I am not sure if I mentioned that. There are 3 commuter lots in the Fredericksburg/Spotsylvania (4 if you count South Stafford).

I think the lanes are only being built down to about exit 143. I think that the busses are cheaper and easier/faster than the VRE but a lot of it depends on whether or not you live East or West of I-95. It also depends on the time of evening the bus is leaving DC. If the bus leaves too late and gets on 95 after 6 pm then it no longer has exclusivity to the HOV lanes and good heavens it takes forever and a day to get home.



Slugging is far superior to either the VRE

Originally Posted by hilsmom

I didn't realize there were busses from fredericksburg. Is that easier/cheaper than VRE? Just curious.

Yes, slugging is also an option coming from down south.

How far south are those lanes being built? all the way to fredericksburg?

[airjay75]

Originally Posted by Carlingtonian

Exactly: They commute to Tyson's Corner or Ft. Belvoir or Dulles, etc--not DC. Thus F-burg isn't in the Greater DC area. And as you said, "Northern Virginia" equates to "the Virginia part of Greater DC."

Because if one makes the criterion "city with a lot of commuters who work in a suburb of DC," then there is no border at all. If Fredericksburg by that measure is in NoVA, then what about people in Hampton Roads who commute to F'burg? Are they too in NoVA?

I could be wrong, but I believe more Fairfax county residents actually work in Virginia than work in DC. Probably a higher percentage than Fredericksburg/Stafford residents, but I don't believe it is a majority of Fairfax county residents that commute to DC to work.

To me, the defining characteristic is more the economic connection of a given area to being adjacent to DC and its surrounding suburbs. If there are significant numbers of people commuting to DC or areas in and around the beltway, that is a sign that the area is economically connected to and dependent upon the DC area. I do think you reach a point where you are sufficiently removed from DC that your area is no longer so tied economically to the DC metro area. Drawing lines is somewhat arbitrary, but I'm not so sure Fredericksburg and Stafford fall clearly on the line of being outside on NoVA.

I voted yes.

[choff5]

Originally Posted by Alley01

If housing costs are your reason, are you really saving the money you expected by not just buying a more expensive house and not dealing with the excessive commute costs, not to mention the time it takes to drive that far? I just don't see how anyone can do a cost benefit analysis and move that far and deal with that commute just because houses are a bit cheaper. Are you grumpy all the time? I sure would be after days like that!

You know, I don't live in Stafford, or Fredericksburg or Brambleton, so can't compare distances to DC. I do think however they all are the same so I just find it humorous that someone who does live in Brambleton, which is west of Dulles airport in Loudin County can talk about commute costs and time to drive. At least for Stafford and Fredericksburg there is the VRE to DC. As for my opinion, I would put Stafford in No. Va. and Fredericksburg outside because I tend to use the Rappahnnock as my boundary.

[leighland]

Originally Posted by Carlingtonian

So having a lot of residents and traffic and being within a physically possible commute to DC makes it NoVA? By that logic, Baltimore is part of NoVA..

I drove a lot between Philly and Nova 6 years ago. Took 1 hour 5-10 mins.

A bad Mr Magoo driver on US17 could make Fauquier County a couple of hours.

I think the MSA's are all fubar-ed in the Commonwealth due to our unusual organization as Counties and not as the state->county->city set up like the rest of the USA. Did you know Suffolk in HR is the largest city in the country? The Population Density is like 1 to over 160 sq.miles

Darn you, Lord Fairfax!!