It felt like Arkansas (Columbus, Springfield: how much, taxes, costs)

[RememberMee]

in winter time. I-70 around Springfield, 1 am, a tiny layer of snow turned interstate pavement to ice. Fair weather, no precipitations, no nothing. Road surface was dry west of Springfield and it turned ice east, no precipitations to warn eastbound traffic, it was just a matter of luck who hits the ice first. Icing was spreading from east to west and so were wrecks, it wasnt a pile up. A good dozen of cars in a ditch, up to ten trucks (I saw) jacknifed, rolled over, in a ditch, traffic jam and no salt trucks whatsoever. It felt like Arkansas where they dont clean/treat interstates in the winter weather (a fairly frequent guest) on principle, it is a local AR sport to see how big of a traffic jam winter weather can create. Normally Ohio is very good about cleaning/treating interstates, you dont expect this sort of thing, not last night.

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by RememberMee

in winter time. I-70 around Springfield, 1 am, a tiny layer of snow turned interstate pavement to ice. Fair weather, no precipitations, no nothing. Road surface was dry west of Springfield and it turned ice east, no precipitations to warn eastbound traffic, it was just a matter of luck who hits the ice first. Icing was spreading from east to west and so were wrecks, it wasnt a pile up. A good dozen of cars in a ditch, up to ten trucks (I saw) jacknifed, rolled over, in a ditch, traffic jam and no salt trucks whatsoever. It felt like Arkansas where they dont clean/treat interstates in the winter weather (a fairly frequent guest) on principle, it is a local AR sport to see how big of a traffic jam winter weather can create. Normally Ohio is very good about cleaning/treating interstates, you dont expect this sort of thing, not last night.

Part of being a good winter driver is knowing that when the temperature is around freezing, black ice always is a possibility, especially at night, when it's cloudy, or on back side of hills. So, someone driving in icing conditions needs to slow down, make certain that they have excellent winter tires (check Consumer Reports), and find a truck and observe their speed caution (most truckers slow down in icing conditions). Truckers driving cautiously is a good indication of icing conditions when conditions are ripe.

With excellent tires and electronic stability control, drivers have improved odds of surviving black ice IF they steer straight and don't panic by turning the wheel.

Were you paying attention to your car's outside temperature thermometer?

<<A car thermometer, like any digital thermometer, tries to find the air's ambient temperature. So, if a vehicle's thermometer is close to freezing, the car driver should be cautious on the roads. >>

http://www.accuweather.com/en/weathe...ngers/22052530

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_ice

It's cost prohibitive to salt roads in anticipation on only possible condensation and freezing.

What Ohio should do is install more road sensors to detect icing conditions and integrate them into warning signs to reduce speeds when icing conditions are underway.

Of course, this takes significant capital investments, and Ohio under Kasich and the Republicans refuse to raise gasoline taxes despite more efficient cars and inflation. Ohioans get what they pay for, and we're not paying for 21st century roads at the current time. We're not even paying for good 20th century roads, except for drivers on the Ohio Turnpike, who even are being gouged with a hidden tax to finance road investment elsewhere in the state.

However, likely what is different in Ohio (especially northern Ohio) than Arkansas is a more robust ability to clear and treat road surfaces when winter conditions are known. Stretches of road in northeast Ohio, such as I-271, actually have road sensors to alert the department of transportation to road conditions and the need for treatment.

Nothing can compensate, however, for poor winter drivers, who insist on driving too fast even when conditions are horrid and visibility is poor.

<<"When visibility is next to zero, there's nothing we can do except warn motorists to be careful," said Matt Bruning, ODOT press secretary.>>

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index...e_snow_ma.html

Hydroplaning is equally dangerous to black ice and occurs on sloppy road surfaces, sometimes in combination with black ice during the winter.

Good winter drivers don't pay any attention to the speed of non-professional drivers when forced to drive in problematic conditions.

[kevinbelt]

Originally Posted by RememberMee

a tiny layer of snow

no precipitations

Which was it?

Also note that the ODOT garage in Springfield is in the northwestern part of the city, at the junction of 68 and 41. If you were travelling eastbound and it was just beginning to freeze, you were likely in front of the salt trucks. You could make an argument that they should have pre-emptively salted, but as WRNative notes, that's pretty expensive. And it was 65 degrees the day before.

I actually drove from Springfield to Columbus yesterday. I don't recall if I saw salt or not.

[RememberMee]

Originally Posted by kevinbelt

Which was it?

Also note that the ODOT garage in Springfield is in the northwestern part of the city, at the junction of 68 and 41. If you were travelling eastbound and it was just beginning to freeze, you were likely in front of the salt trucks. You could make an argument that they should have pre-emptively salted, but as WRNative notes, that's pretty expensive. And it was 65 degrees the day before.

I actually drove from Springfield to Columbus yesterday. I don't recall if I saw salt or not.

No precipitations/ 100% dry roads West of Springfield. No precipitations/ice around Springfield. Driving skills aside it takes sacrificial goats to strike ice first thus warning the rest by crashing in the middle of a night. There is no safe driving speed when on ice. If anything snow dusting was insignificant and freezing long playing, it takes some mighty time for road surface to drop its temperature below zero after a relatively warm day. Salt trucks appeared way way after the crashes. I would say somebody screwed it up.

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by RememberMee

Salt trucks appeared way way after the crashes. I would say somebody screwed it up.

How do you know when the salt trucks arrived? Did you crash?

Again, you don't get condensation and black ice unless the road temperature has dropped below freezing. After a long stretch of warm weather, recently experienced, without sensors, it's not surprising that ODOT didn't anticipate an icing situation as ground heat should have kept the road surface warmer than the ambient air temperature.

It's more likely that ODOT would have pre-treated roads if there had been actual precipitation.

My point is that good winter driving skills are a necessary skill for driving in winter conditions, and anybody paying attention to the external temperature should have been very cautious in the conditions which you have described.

It seems to me that in this case, you're being unfair to ODOT given their limited budgets. It would be interesting to know how much per mile it costs to treat an interstate highway, and even if ODOT had scheduled road crews for the night in question.

Comparing Ohio to a southern state, where roads often are a mess days after a major snow/ice event, not a few hours as in most of Ohio, is unfair.