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Hey folks, this is an issue that has been gnawing at me for a while now.
I've previously lived in Connecticut and New Hampshire. In 2019 we moved to Ohio for my wife's job at Cleveland Clinic. I live in Shaker Heights and commute all the way to Youngstown.
One of the striking aspects of Ohio is the intense police presence on our roads. My daily commute is exactly 1 hour, and it's very common to see 6+ police cars during my commute. In the Austintown/Youngstown area, sometimes I will see FOUR police cars all sitting next to each other on the median.
I'm not sure if Ohioans are basically accustomed to this, but I do not think it's the norm across the country. I also had a 1 hour highway commute in New Hampshire and would rarely see police cars on the side of the road, perhaps once or twice per week, and never more than a single car. Of course, New Hampshire has a much less dense population. But Connecticut also does not have the extremely high police presence I've seen in Ohio. I don't even see this level of police highway presence in highly populated places like New York or Massachusetts.
Prior to the lockdown, I also frequently traveled to Quebec, and again, there is very little police presence compared to Ohio.
This obviously translates into WAY more traffic stops (at least, that's my perception). It's not uncommon for me to see 3 or 4 cars pulled over on my way to or from work.
I support the police and respect the difficult job that they are doing. But couldn't our resources be allocated in a better way? For example, where I live, historic, beautiful Shaker Square is slowly being choked off by chronic crime - maybe we could have a constant police presence there, rather than speed traps in safe areas of town. And in Youngstown, we clearly have a poor population. It seems like a gross misallocation of resources to be pulling over people driving $3,000 crappy cars and giving them expensive traffic tickets, when clearly they cannot afford them, and in many cases they are clearly not driving unsafely in any objective sense (see below). I make a good income now, but I remember a time when a $150 unplanned expense would destroy my budget for the month.
Now obviously many might respond, well, just follow the laws! But I feel that is a gross oversimplification. For example, in Youngstown the highway speed limit is 50 MPH. The flow of traffic is WELL above that, probably 65 MPH at least. And the off-ramps are 25 MPH. Anyone just following the flow of traffic is liable to get a ticket. If you slow down to 50 MPH, you are practically obstructing traffic at that point, with cars behind you closing in at 70+ MPH in some areas. If you drive 25 MPH on an off-ramp, cars will pile up behind you like crazy. There are some twisty parts of the highway, but the straight, wide open areas are also 50 MPH.
There are also lots of "gotcha" tactics. For example, Van Aken Boulevard has a very short school zone that drops from 35 MPH to 20 MPH for only a few hundred feet. I recently got a ticket there in the early morning. There were no people at all walking around, and I don't even think the school was open. I was going 35 MPH on my way to work and was hit with a $169 ticket. I hired a lawyer to help keep my driving record clean, but it will end up costing nearly $700 when all is said and done. I've also seen police hide behind pulled over cars on the highway, so they can give people tickets for not moving over a lane. We also have a problem with speed cameras, and some towns like Walton Hills seem to get a huge amount of their revenue from these. And then there's Linndale...
Again, I've not seen this police presence or these tactics in other places I've lived. In New Hampshire, I got pulled over twice for slight overspeeding (40 in a 25, and 60 in a 50, both rural country roads), with warnings each time. I also was pulled over once when I first moved to the state for not having up-to-date vehicle inspection, simply because I didn't understand the inspection system - again, just a warning. My wife got pulled over once for something like 45 in a 30, again with just a warning. I received one totally justified ticket as a teenager in Connecticut for idiotic driving. In other states, watching out for police or constantly monitoring my behavior has just been less of an issue.
Does anyone else feel this way? I guess I just hate having a minor heart attack every time I see a police officer pull out, thinking I've done something wrong. And I do feel really bad for people who are obviously quite poor, getting pulled over by officers in $50k SUV's, although obviously most of the time I have no idea if they were really driving crazy or perhaps should be spared a little leeway.
Well, I’ve lived in 6 states and have travelled most of the lower 48, and would concur that OH seems to have a very large police presence on the roads and highways.
I generally keep with the flow of traffic, and might creep 5-8 mph over the highway speed limits.
In 28 years of driving OUTSIDE the state of OH, I can only remember two instances of being physically pulled over for speeding and getting handed a ticket.
During that same stretch, I made a handful of visits to NE OH to see family, and got nailed twice in maybe 60 days of total driving in OH.
Same driving habits. Twice in 28 years, vs twice in 60 days...LOL. Could just be back luck, who knows...
On visits to OH, the wife (west coaster) would remark with surprise at the number of police. Maybe that’s due to the route we would take (OH Turnpike from CLE to Y-town), but they do seem to be everywhere...set up on surface streets, 2-4 lane roads, etc.
Not sure how I feel about it. It’s kinda’ nice not having “the Fast and the Furious” play out on OH roads. Lord knows I never see cops in OR, and wouldn’t mind some visible signs of law and order here.
I totally get your point on prioritization of resources. There needs to be a balance. Maybe OH is overdoing it a tad.
I shall see for myself how many sneaky troopers are waiting to bait holiday travelers this weekend. As a Michigan driver, I keep my eyes peeled in Ohio. It’s rumored that they see our plates as a source of income .
bomgd3, As far Linndale is concerned, the Mayor's Court there was abolished in 2012, now Parma has jurisdiction to hear traffic offenses for Linndale.
The best thing about traffic offenses is most Municipalities mirror state law at the penalty phase, violations of a general nature are classified as Minor Misdemeanors, no jail, money fine only, but can codify them as an arrestable offense, M-4 and above, if they choose.
Just as a side note, the Ohio Highway Patrol has traffic jurisdiction on all roads and highways, not just Interstates and State Routes, which may or may not be how Connecticut or New Hampshire operates their State units.
Even going 1 mile over the speed limit is a "prima-facie" offense, however the driver has a presumption of defense that such was not a disregard of public safety, too fast for road conditions, etc. The court must weigh these factors.
Well, I’ve lived in 6 states and have travelled most of the lower 48, and would concur that OH seems to have a very large police presence on the roads and highways.
I generally keep with the flow of traffic, and might creep 5-8 mph over the highway speed limits.
In 28 years of driving OUTSIDE the state of OH, I can only remember two instances of being physically pulled over for speeding and getting handed a ticket.
During that same stretch, I made a handful of visits to NE OH to see family, and got nailed twice in maybe 60 days of total driving in OH.
Same driving habits. Twice in 28 years, vs twice in 60 days...LOL. Could just be back luck, who knows...
On visits to OH, the wife (west coaster) would remark with surprise at the number of police. Maybe that’s due to the route we would take (OH Turnpike from CLE to Y-town), but they do seem to be everywhere...set up on surface streets, 2-4 lane roads, etc.
Not sure how I feel about it. It’s kinda’ nice not having “the Fast and the Furious” play out on OH roads. Lord knows I never see cops in OR, and wouldn’t mind some visible signs of law and order here.
I totally get your point on prioritization of resources. There needs to be a balance. Maybe OH is overdoing it a tad.
I agree with you, I’ve gotten one Walton Hills speeding camera ticket (successfully fought in court) and the aforementioned Van Aken Boulevard ticket in 1.5 years living in Ohio, which is more than my entire other 14 years of driving. And I haven’t changed my driving habits and am not a speed demon.
BTW, the Walton Hills speed camera was 48 MPH on a four lane boulevard with a 35 mph limit and the Van Aken ticket was on a four lane boulevard with a 20 MPH limit. Four lanes - 20 MPH! Both limits are artificially low. If I had been drinking coffee, I would have spat it out when the officer informed me that the speed limit is 20.
Having lived in Ohio for most of my life, I am amazed by the lack of police presence I see on the highways when I go to another state. Is Ohio over-policed, or are other states under-policed? What do traffic crash statistics, particularly personal injury and fatal crash statistics look like between states and their enforcement levels?
Ohio has a Highway Patrol -- not a state police -- so their bread and butter is traffic enforcement as opposed to general police work. The OSHP makes more felony arrests than any agency in the state because traffic stops for minor issues frequently turn up felony warrants, large amounts of drugs, and stolen firearms. I 75 and I 70 make Ohio a national conduit for the illegal drug trade. All minor traffic stops have the potential to turn into something pretty big, so some of it is just fishing. There are also federal traffic safety grants, so the government is paying officers to be present and to enforce traffic. You can argue that it is a misallocation of funds, but the locals don't have any control of that.
Well, the Van Aken ticket was in a school zone, independent of whether the school was in session or not (probably wasn't due to the pandemic), local police and sheriff's will always ticket for safety reasons. I do hate the speed cameras though, with NYC and DC being a few other places with both speed and red light cameras everywhere. While studies show the cameras are placed in high accident areas, they also tend to be in areas with poorer infrastructure and spread-thin local law enforcement. And those also happen to be low income areas.
My personal problem with the cameras, especially speed cameras, is part due process and part administrative fees for the camera operators. Most camera operators are not the local police or sheriff's office. So now I have a ~$150 fine plus another $50-100 in admin fees to pay on a ticket where I may have been flowing with traffic at 4-6 mph above a posted speed of 35 or 40 mph. And when these cameras were placed in small municipalities with little to no prior enforcement, it became essentially a cash grab for local governments. Quite a shame if you ask me.
While I have been lucky (very likely because I am a white male), having been pulled over only twice in 15+ years of driving with both instances coming with warnings, it floors me how much OSHP presence I see on Ohio roadways. The upthread post on OSHP jurisdiction is correct, as I have seen OSHP stationed on local roads as well. But they primarily take to interstates and US Routes. I have also heard warnings are a lot harder to come by with OSHP traffic stops than local and county law enforcement.
The first time I was pulled over by Columbus Police on I-670 at night while passing cars at 72-74 mph. Officer claimed he clocked me at 82, but I contested and after he ran my license, just asked me to slow down and drive with more caution. The second time was out-of-state for work travel in South Carolina, in a construction zone .75 miles from my hotel's exit, go figure. That was for doing 51-53 mph and slowing approaching a 45mph construction zone on I-85 in Greenville. Thankfully he immediately said he was giving me a written before running my license. So, in my travels in 40+ states, I have seen greater police presence, especially with state police or highway patrols, in Ohio, New York, South Carolina and Texas. Most everywhere else, including my now home state of Kentucky, have minimal visible highway enforcement.
I will say that on I-275 in NKY, local police for Covington near the KY-17 exit, and Southgate, Cold Spring, Highland Heights and Wilder PDs around I-275/I-471/KY-9/AA Hwy, will be more visible than pretty much the rest of KY. Now whether that is just because I live in the area or not, who knows. When I drive I-75 to Lexington I hardly see any law enforcement past Florence (and its ridiculous 55mph "construction zone" that has been seemingly complete for over a year now). But Kentucky State Police or locals and county sheriffs outside Campbell and Boone Counties? Hardly ever see them.
I would say the Ohio Highway Patrol (state police) has a significant presence on the Ohio Turnpike (I-80/90, I-80 & I-76 near PA). Otherwise, it's about average. I have also noticed that they have significantly backed off of speeding pullovers (at least for me ) since the limit was bumped up to 70 MPH.
The upthread post on OSHP jurisdiction is correct, as I have seen OSHP stationed on local roads as well. But they primarily take to interstates and US Routes.
I used to have printed out a Court of Appeals case of Title 55 annotations. A man argued that they had no traffic authority/jurisdiction off of Interstates. But the court cited the part of the statute that said, without looking at title 55, they did have such as the term "roads and highways" was just that. The court cited the statutory construction rule that if a word/term/phrase is not defined in law, then the everyday common usage applies, and it quoted from a dictionary what road and highway meant.
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) since the limit was bumped up to 70 MPH.
