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There is no 'long term' yet. They've been all over the map with the 'science' since the beginning of this thing. For each of the studies you cite, others can cite a polar opposite study by another equally educated doctor/statistician. You may not like it... but it's a fact. And yes, I think you're wrong to call them dangerous and disgusting, because you'd take great offense if they said that about you. Everyone has an opinion, and just because you don't like it doesn't mean they're not entitled to it. right back at 'ya.
Just a whole helluva lot of people have been 'diagnosed' as having COVID... but according to my math, it's still less than 1% of the population. And of that helluva lot of people diagnosed, well less than 1% died. If you think the vaccine(s) is responsible for slowing things down, good for you. Many, many folks disagree.
No response necessary, I'm out. You win, because it's clearly more important to you.
There is no 'long term' yet. They've been all over the map with the 'science' since the beginning of this thing. For each of the studies you cite, others can cite a polar opposite study by another equally educated doctor/statistician. You may not like it... but it's a fact. And yes, I think you're wrong to call them dangerous and disgusting, because you'd take great offense if they said that about you. Everyone has an opinion, and just because you don't like it doesn't mean they're not entitled to it. right back at 'ya.
Just a whole helluva lot of people have been 'diagnosed' as having COVID... but according to my math, it's still less than 1% of the population. And of that helluva lot of people diagnosed, well less than 1% died. If you think the vaccine(s) is responsible for slowing things down, good for you. Many, many folks disagree.
No response necessary, I'm out. You win, because it's clearly more important to you.
Good answer.
A year from now WR will still be terrified of this virus. And every day he will find new reasons to be terrified. He will continue to cover his face, thinking that will protect him. And he will continue to not understand why the people around him refuse to live their lives in fear.
No point in trying to argue with him. In his own way, he seems to be happy in the world he has created around him.
What hospitalized COVID patients now have in common
They are not vaccinated. While vaccinations aren't totally effective in preventing COVID infections, they are almost 100 percent effective in preventing symptoms requiring hospitalization. And yet anti-vaxxers are taken seriously by a large percentage of the American population.
<<USA TODAY
People hospitalized with COVID-19 now have one overwhelming thing in common. They're not vaccinated.>>
<<In Minnesota, the HealthPartners system has seen a “precipitous decline” in COVID-19 hospitalizations, says Dr. Mark Sannes, an infectious disease physician and senior medical director for the system, which operates nine hospitals and more than 55 clinics. But now, nearly every admitted patient he does see is unvaccinated.
“Less than 1% of our hospitalized COVID patients are vaccinated," he said.
In Ohio, at University Hospitals Cleveland Medical Center, only 2% of the COVID-19 patients admitted in the last month were vaccinated, said Dr. Robert Salata, the hospital's physician-in-chief.
Given the high rate of vaccination among the elderly, hospitalized COVID patients are now younger.
<<Medical centers say there's also an obvious change in the age of their sickest patients, as older people are much more likely to be vaccinated than younger.
"We're all seeing the same thing – when someone does get sick and comes to the hospital, they're much more likely to be young and unvaccinated," said Dr. Robert Wachter, professor and chair of the Department of Medicine at the University of California, San Francisco....
In New Jersey, the percentage of COVID-19 hospitalizations among those ages 18 to 29 has increased 58% since the beginning of the year. By comparison, the percentage of COVID-19 hospitalizations among the 65 and older age group – with a statewide vaccination rate of more than 80% – declined by 31.2%.>>
Anti-vaxxers effectively promote higher infection rates and the infection of children, sometimes with serious consequences.
<<Among children 11 and younger, who can’t yet get the vaccine, having vaccinated family members is keeping them out of the hospital, and protecting them against MIS-C, the multisystem inflammatory syndrome that can be a rare but dangerous aftereffect of a COVID-19 infection in children.
“Most of the kids we’re seeing in the hospital with COVID or MIS-C had COVID in their household, maybe a parent or a grandparent, and most of those individuals had not been vaccinated,” he said.>>
Gottlieb in the interview says even mild COVID cases may result in brain tissue loss, according to the study.
In addition to reading the above article and watching the video, persons should read the unique British study linked in the article. The Brits, due to their emphasis on national health, had a pre-COVID data bank of 40,000 brain scans to use to compare pre- and post-COVID brains.
<<We identified significant effects of COVID-19 in the brain with a loss of grey matter in
the left parahippocampal gyrus, the left lateral orbitofrontal cortex and the left insula. When
looking over the entire cortical surface, these results extended to the anterior cingulate
cortex, supramarginal gyrus and temporal pole. We further compared COVID-19 patients who
had been hospitalised (n=15) with those who had not (n=379), and while results were not
significant, we found comparatively similar findings to the COVID-19 vs control group
comparison, with, in addition, a greater loss of grey matter in the cingulate cortex, central
nucleus of the amygdala and hippocampal cornu ammonis (all |Z|>3). Our findings thus
consistently relate to loss of grey matter in limbic cortical areas directly linked to the primary
olfactory and gustatory system. Unlike in post hoc disease studies, the availability of preinfection imaging data helps avoid the danger of pre-existing risk factors or clinical conditions
being mis-interpreted as disease effects.>>
During the CNBC interview this morning on "Squawk Box," Gottlieb said the Delta variant which is becoming increasingly dominant in the U.S., not only is much more transmissible, but it also may be more pathogenic and more readily infect children. Gottlieb said any COVID infection is not desirable given the serious, long-lasting consequences of even mild infections.
After examining these materials, I'm much more convinced the anti-mask and anti-robust public health measure politicians and their enablers have seriously impaired the medical health of the nation. The anti-vaxxers are outright dangerous IMO.
Gottlieb discusses Delta variant on June 13 CBS "Face the Nation:"
<<There was data out from Neil Ferguson this week showing [the Delta variant is] about 60% more transmissible than 1.1.7, which was that old U.K. variant that they're now calling the Alpha variant. So this is more contagious. It appears that people who get this virus have higher viral loads and they have those viral loads for longer periods of time. So they shed more virus. Right now in the United States, it's about 10% of infections. It's doubling every two weeks. So it's probably going to become the dominant strain here in the United States. That doesn't mean that we're going to see a sharp uptick in infections, but it does mean that this is going to take over. And I think the risk is really to the fall that this could spike a new epidemic heading into the fall.
My understanding is that persons with higher COVID viral loads likely become more sick.
COVID loss of smell poses a serious risk to those with homes that use natural gas. Parosmia is a common consequence of those who lose their sense of smell.
<<Viegut worries that she may not be able to detect a gas leak or a fire. That is a real risk, as shown in January by the experience of a family in Waco, Texas, that did not detect that their house was on fire. Nearly all members had lost their sense of smell because of COVID; they escaped, but the house was destroyed.>>
Good answer.
A year from now WR will still be terrified of this virus. And every day he will find new reasons to be terrified. He will continue to cover his face, thinking that will protect him. And he will continue to not understand why the people around him refuse to live their lives in fear.
No point in trying to argue with him. In his own way, he seems to be happy in the world he has created around him.
If he and others are still terrified of this virus a year from now, it will be largely due to people like you ignoring recommendations, refusing to mask or get vaccinated, thereby allowing the virus to spread and mutate. I really, really hope that a year from now we can put this damned virus behind us, but it's people like you who refuse to take the virus seriously, who are most likely to allow the virus to linger indefinitely. Sorry if you don't like the truth.
If he and others are still terrified of this virus a year from now, it will be largely due to people like you ignoring recommendations, refusing to mask or get vaccinated, thereby allowing the virus to spread and mutate. I really, really hope that a year from now we can put this damned virus behind us, but it's people like you who refuse to take the virus seriously, who are most likely to allow the virus to linger indefinitely. Sorry if you don't like the truth.
I am fully vaccinated and every US citizen also has the opportunity to be vaccinated free of charge, regardless of insurance status. There are those who refuse to do this and I'm afraid that there's nothing I can do about that. But I will not continue to wear face coverings because somebody else has refused the vaccination.
Last edited by Mick St John; 06-18-2021 at 09:31 AM..
I have to add that vaccination isn't the only factor at work here. There are many unvaccinated people walking around right now that already have antibodies because they have picked up the virus, whether they knew it or not, and got over it.
For many reasons the virus is not the same kind of threat it was a year ago. It is our choice to either continue to live in fear, or to get on with our lives.
Due to the Delta variant's higher transmissibility rate, high viral load, and apparently higher pathology, children are much more vulnerable to the Delta variant than earlier COVID variants. Children under 12 aren't yet eligible for vaccination.
<<It seems to affect younger people more often. In the United Kingdom, studies showed that children and adults under 50 were 2.5 times more likely to become infected.>>
The Delta variant apparently results in a much higher rate of hospitalization among the infected.
<<Scientists are still studying the virus and their early conclusions aren’t definitive. But British scientists, who have probably done the most work on the variant, estimate it is from 40% to as much as 80% more infectious than the so-called Alpha variant, or B.1.1.7, which was first identified in England last year, is now prevalent in the U.S. and is itself more contagious than the version of the virus that emerged in China in 2019....
Scientists don’t yet know if the Delta variant is deadlier than other variants, but a study published in “The Lancet” medical journal estimated that the risk of hospitalization after infection with Delta could be 85% higher than with Alpha.>>
I have to add that vaccination isn't the only factor at work here. There are many unvaccinated people walking around right now that already have antibodies because they have picked up the virus, whether they knew it or not, and got over it.
For many reasons the virus is not the same kind of threat it was a year ago. It is our choice to either continue to live in fear, or to get on with our lives.
Natural immunity, especially from mild or asymptomatic infections, is much weaker than from vaccines, and it wanes faster over time because it relies more on antibodies and doesn't activate the T-cell immune as much, as discussed and documented in earlier posts.
Older persons and those with pre-existing medical conditions generally receive less immunity protection from vaccines.
A question not answered is what is the tipping point for a more virulent variant such as Delta "breaking through" the vaccine let alone natural immunity for older persons, especially those vaccinated or infected in the earlier months of the year.
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right back at 'ya.
What hospitalized COVID patients now have in common
