Eminent Domain in Downtown Orlando / Another "NIMBY" situation (Miami: hotel, house)

[Pete C]

Magic had average attendance of 16,245 in the 2013/2014 season. That is way above half.

2013-2014 NBA Attendance - National Basketball Association - ESPN

Let's not get into turnstile vs announced, because every team goes by announced.

[OrlFlaUsa]

Originally Posted by annerk

Not apples to oranges. Small market or large, if they can't sell out they can't sell out.

Chicago has millions upon millions of people trying to fill a 20 some thousand seat arena where as we have just over 2 million spread over a large area, trying to fill an 18 thousand seat game. Their population is 4-5 times greater, where as our relative arena size is only a few thousand less.

It's really no surprise that in places like LA, NY, and Chicago, that their teams sell out almost all the time. There is just so many people in metro areas that big that want to get their piece of the pie. Couple that with the standard Florida woes like lack of residents connecting with local teams, etc, and our attendance during our short 25 years as a team begins to be put into better perspective.

[annerk]

Originally Posted by OrlFlaUsa

Chicago has millions upon millions of people trying to fill a 20 some thousand seat arena where as we have just over 2 million spread over a large area, trying to fill an 18 thousand seat game. Their population is 4-5 times greater, where as our relative arena size is only a few thousand less.

It's really no surprise that in places like LA, NY, and Chicago, that their teams sell out almost all the time. There is just so many people in metro areas that big that want to get their piece of the pie. Couple that with the standard Florida woes like lack of residents connecting with local teams, etc, and our attendance during our short 25 years as a team begins to be put into better perspective.

Again, it doesn't matter how large the area is. If they can't/won't support a team, they can't/won't support a team. Green Bay, WI has a whopping 300K people in it's metro area and has sold out every game since 1960 with over 75,000 people on the waiting list for season tickets. If we had that type of support for the pro teams we already have here, great, add another. Until then...

[OrlFlaUsa]

Originally Posted by annerk

Again, it doesn't matter how large the area is. If they can't/won't support a team, they can't/won't support a team. Green Bay, WI has a whopping 300K people in it's metro area and has sold out every game since 1960 with over 75,000 people on the waiting list for season tickets. If we had that type of support for the pro teams we already have here, great, add another. Until then...

Wait so you're actually suggesting that a place should only get a team (in any sport mind you) if it has the level of support that Green Bay has?

Well the MLS has done their research and was impressed with Orlando's attendance so maybe you're the one who's off regarding this subject. Well that and the fact that other posters are showing you how Orlando does in fact support their teams well, all things considered.

[annerk]

Originally Posted by OrlFlaUsa

Wait so you're actually suggesting that a place should only get a team (in any sport mind you) if it has the level of support that Green Bay has?

Well the MLS has done their research and was impressed with Orlando's attendance so maybe you're the one who's off regarding this subject. Well that and the fact that other posters are showing you how Orlando does in fact support their teams well, all things considered.

I'm suggesting that we shouldn't be spending tax dollars to build stadiums when the current teams aren't selling out the places that are already built. If MLS wants to be here so badly, perhaps they should have built their own stadium, or at least contributed heavily to it. I see it as a win-win for them and absolutely no guarantee on return for the tax payer.

[EditorJul]

Originally Posted by annerk

I'm suggesting that we shouldn't be spending tax dollars to build stadiums when the current teams aren't selling out the places that are already built. If MLS wants to be here so badly, perhaps they should have built their own stadium, or at least contributed heavily to it. I see it as a win-win for them and absolutely no guarantee on return for the tax payer.

After seeing the article yesterday about how the NFL wants their halftime performers to pay for the "privilege" of having "exposure" by being the halftime band, I'm pretty certain that if a major sports conglomerate can find a way to get someone else to foot the bill, they will. And if not, they'll stomp their feet and whine until they get their way.

[Pete C]

Originally Posted by annerk

I'm suggesting that we shouldn't be spending tax dollars to build stadiums when the current teams aren't selling out the places that are already built. If MLS wants to be here so badly, perhaps they should have built their own stadium, or at least contributed heavily to it. I see it as a win-win for them and absolutely no guarantee on return for the tax payer.

MLS didn't want to be here that badly, in fact they had to be convinced we could support a team. Expansion cities have to woo the league with reasons to expand there, not the other way around. MLS isn't giving any city any money, that's for sure. They have plenty of cities to choose from right now...all with their own clubs and stadium plans. The City of Orlando saw an opportunity to land a second major professional sports team. OCSC came here with experience in running a soccer club, a plan, money, and MLS aspirations. OCSC paid a 100M expansion fee to get into MLS, as well as contributed 30M to the stadium.

[annerk]

Originally Posted by Pete C

MLS didn't want to be here that badly, in fact they had to be convinced we could support a team. Expansion cities have to woo the league with reasons to expand there, not the other way around. MLS isn't giving any city any money, that's for sure. They have plenty of cities to choose from right now...all with their own clubs and stadium plans. The City of Orlando saw an opportunity to land a second major professional sports team. OCSC came here with experience in running a soccer club, a plan, money, and MLS aspirations. OCSC paid a 100M expansion fee to get into MLS, as well as contributed 30M to the stadium.

Actually it's their third major sports team.

By the time they get done with cost over runs, it's going to end up costing taxpayers $150M, so $30M is nothing. I bet if you polled the majority of people in Orlando, they would not be in favor of paying $250 each out of their pocket towards this stadium--which is what it will end up costing every resident of Orlando IF there are no cost overruns. I'm sure they will remember this when they go to the polls.

[Pete C]

Originally Posted by annerk

Actually it's their third major sports team.

By the time they get done with cost over runs, it's going to end up costing taxpayers $150M, so $30M is nothing. I bet if you polled the majority of people in Orlando, they would not be in favor of paying $250 each out of their pocket towards this stadium--which is what it will end up costing every resident of Orlando IF there are no cost overruns. I'm sure they will remember this when they go to the polls.

That's a lot of overrun. I can only look at what has been reported, which is the total cost of 110M broken down like this:

30M cash from OCSC
30M sales tax rebate from the state (1M per year/30 years)
25M from TDT
25M from the city

So, given there is 25M from actual city taxpayers, you are projecting 125M in overrun to get to that 150M figure?

[annerk]

Originally Posted by Pete C

That's a lot of overrun. I can only look at what has been reported, which is the total cost of 110M broken down like this:

30M cash from OCSC
30M sales tax rebate from the state (1M per year/30 years)
25M from TDT
25M from the city

So, given there is 25M from actual city taxpayers, you are projecting 125M in overrun to get to that 150M figure?

Meanwhile they are paying out over $1M a year in bond interest over that 30 years.

By the way, the latest costs are $115M, and that doesn't include soft costs like marketing and legal absorbed by the existing City departments. Orlando City Soccer unveils stadium renderings | Sports - WESH Home

The City could have done a lot with $25M that would have benefited everyone, not just soccer fans..

Miami and Tampa which are much larger cities couldn't/wouldn't support MLS, both had teams that folded. It's pretty much a fairy tale to think Orlando will do any better.