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There are a few things that bother me about your posts.
In the first post, you said she will hide pull ups because she's too lazy to throw them away.
In this last post, you say you don't allow pull ups.
She isn't hiding her pull ups because she's lazy. She's hiding them because she doesn't want to get in trouble! Just the very fact you "don't allow them" indicates that you are making her feel badly about it. Why the heck would you not allow your daughter to wear pull ups when she clearly NEEDS them?!?!?!!
Your over controlling the toilet issue is probably what has caused this to go on for so many years! You can't force a child to be potty trained with rules. It's the only power they have over their own bodies. nobody can force them to urinate and defecate.
I'm sure she's not wiping feces around at school. The fact she's doing it at home means it's a power struggle with you. You said it's always a fight. That's where you failed. This is a battle you will NOT ever win. You need a different approach.
I won't even give recommendations since she's so old. It's time for you to seek professionals and follow their recommendations. She needs a child psychologist and YOU need to do exactly what the child psychologist says.
You are right it didn't happen over night. She has had some issues since birth. I have worked with kids for 10 years and I have been a mom for 12 and I have tried everything I can think of and perhaps you are right I am just fed up with it. I've spoken to her dr several times and had her tested for a few things trying to find our why she is bed wetting and all they said in the end is physically she is fine and will grow out of it in time. I have spoken to her dr about the behavior and until recently he said she will grow out of it. The dr said he could get a referral once she was evaluated at school and I have done that. She has a referral now and an appointment. I am worried about her and have always tried to be there for her. I thought somehow I was better equipped and had more training and could handle it on my own but I need listen to the specialist and see what they say now. I DO NOT FEEL she is autistic. She is a very sweet very beautiful child and she is a little underweight but I give her vitamins and try to cover every need. Today after diner I ran a bath and when she came in there she went to the restroom and didn't wipe. I reminded her with a smile and she did then I saw her clothes and noticed she had put on a pull up again (which I don't allow unless she is sleeping because she is potty trained) and it was of coarse full of urine. I just don't know what else to do. While I made dinner she took her sisters book and wrote squiggly lines on every page. She does these things then just sits there innocently like she isn't aware she just did them. My 4 year old wouldn't but she would and it frustrates me. I have loved her since conception and will love her until the end of time. I want what's best for her and I'm worried about her. Her behavior makes eating out hard or even going to someone's house. Watching my 4 year old pass her in some aspects is hard. She is smart though and sweet. She can read, write, she even likes to write poems and she is such a little artist. She has set a fire before and I can no longer light candles and hide matches. She has this what I thought was an adorable little habit. She will (she still does this) crawls into bed with me and she has to put her hand on my face and say I love you mommy. She will fall asleep like that and even asleep if I move her hand she will find my face and put her hand back and all the while fast asleep. I wonder now I this is a red flag I don't know. I have to admit I'm desperate. I want the best in the world for her. I know I also dedicate more time to her than the other kids but I have to she needs the attention. I love my child
You have been working with children for 10 years? In a school setting or what?
You never heard of early intervention services in your state? Seriously if she has been doing the poop smearing since she was a toddler, I am surprised you did not call them yourself - you don't need a referral for that. You can't go back and do that so don't beat yourself up, but do something now. Your doc could easily have referred her earlier if he wanted to, btw. No doc has to wait for a school evaluation to refer you to a specialist.
Now that she is 6 though, you need to get a referral and keep the appointment and get whatever therapy her diagnostician recommends. Often the wait list for a good developmental ped can be long - get on the wait list for cancellations so you can get in earlier.
I have no doubt that you love her and that she is sweet and smart. She needs help to get her behavior on track. I don't think that crawling in bed with you the way you describe is a red flag for anything, btw.
I allow her pull-ups at night not during the day. She is 7 and potty trained she doesn't need them during the day. I have spoken to the dr and yes she has been doing it a long time. Yes she has done it twice at school but last year not in the first grade. I do work at a school yes and I have spoken even to the counselor at my work who felt she knew me well and possibly things were to structured and she needed time to express herself. I apparently run on bedtime, dinner time and a rather set schedule for my kids. She may need some time to express herself which is why I put her in dance and soccer, I even signed her up for art classes. Her behavior is not good in class or extra curricular but I must admit you're right she doesn't pull the bathroom stunts in public. I will follow the advice of the drs. I will follow it to the T and hope that it improves. As far as the referal yes that's what I was told by the insurance I need one to see the therapist. I am worried now more than before because she just hasn't grown out of it like everyone has always told me she will. I think possibly she is strong willed and this is some subconscious way of battling me honestly I don't know. All I know is I will do anything in this world or the next to help her.
The problem is you're battling her. Parents are told to back off when their children have toilet issues. They're not supposed to be punished or made to feel ashamed. You were strict with the very thing you absolutely can't control. Living under your strict schedule, she was able to have control over this one little aspect of her life. The more you obsessed about it, the more she acted out.
Her not doing it at school and doing it at home indicates it's psychological and all about her power struggle with you. You keep getting tougher by having rules about when she can wear pull ups. You should have never cared when she wore pull ups because not caring would have taken the power away and made it not a big deal. You gave her this power by caring way too much about potty training. When doctors told you she'd outgrow it, they probably didn't imagine that you were making such a big deal about it at home.
But at her age, I don't even know where to begin to correct it because you've let it go way too long. That's why I said follow what they tell you to do. If they tell you to let her wear pull ups whenever she darn well pleases and not even pay attention or comment on it, that's what you will need to do.
I agree with a lot of what you said but to be clear I have never shamed her in anyway. I wouldn't do that to her. I have been possibly to structured with strict schedules and such but it's what I thought was best for the kids. It's just the four of us and they want and need for nothing. I'm trying as much as I know how and reaching out to someone (doctor or even here) and say "I don't have this" is very hard for me. They are my world and thinking of the kids at school teasing her or anyone treating her different makes my stomach turn
I agree with a lot of what you said but to be clear I have never shamed her in anyway. I wouldn't do that to her. I have been possibly to structured with strict schedules and such but it's what I thought was best for the kids. It's just the four of us and they want and need for nothing. I'm trying as much as I know how and reaching out to someone (doctor or even here) and say "I don't have this" is very hard for me. They are my world and thinking of the kids at school teasing her or anyone treating her different makes my stomach turn
Are you too busy? With work and all, is it possible that she is depressed? "middle child syndrome"? With momma so busy, and at her age, it could be she's doing anything she can, for attention. She's not the baby and she's not the eldest. Her mom works and has 3 children, with whom she has to divide her time. She could simply be your "sensitive" child. Sensitive kids are easily damaged and the pain can last a lifetime.
If for no other reason that to "put your mind at ease", I'd talk to the therapist about the behavior. Good luck to you. I know....ti's so hard!!
Yes I'm busy and this has succeeded in getting my attention so perhaps that's why it continues. I don't know. Whether she does this or not I will still be busy it's not ignoring my child it's the life of a widow (my oldest daughters father died) and a divorcee (divorced my younger kids dad who is at best minimally involved but a good provider still). I know our lives don't come without challenges, ours is no different. I am there though, I read to them, I hold them, I cook dinner, I bathe them, I do not go out every night, I don't ignore her, I'm there almost all the time. I don't drink, abuse, neglect or anything. She has her own room in a home in the suburbs and she is loved so much. I guess I need help I don't know. I'm independent and that's how I am but my love for her has me reaching out and I will do anything. Perhaps the fact her older sister is so advanced and does do well and her baby brother is the the baby and only boy has her feeling left out, I don't know. If that's it then I have failed her somehow and need to fix it I just don't know how.
It certainly sounds like your child could be struggling with mental illness (Autism? Bipolar Disorder? Schizophrenia? Anxiety Disorder?), and she should be seen by a child psychiatrist to be properly evaluated AND HELPED! Trying to treat an organically-based mental health issue with rewards and punishment is futile, if not cruel. Perhaps the proper medication and therapy could help your child find her way back to a normal childhood. Sooner is better!
This isn't a disciplinary problem, or one that can be solved purely by getting her to "mind". from my own amateur opinion, it sounds pretty serious. it could be a whole range of things, none of which i am qualified to name, but smearing your poop on walls is not just a kid acting out. that's a little more serious. as dire as that is, she is 7, its still quite early to get her some help. i would advise you do so, straight away.
It certainly sounds like your child could be struggling with mental illness (Autism? Bipolar Disorder? Schizophrenia? Anxiety Disorder?), and she should be seen by a child psychiatrist to be properly evaluated AND HELPED! Trying to treat an organically-based mental health issue with rewards and punishment is futile, if not cruel. Perhaps the proper medication and therapy could help your child find her way back to a normal childhood. Sooner is better!
Good post! I agree! I truly don't believe that this is a discipline problem like other posters have put the OP down with.
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