Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Parenting
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-23-2014, 03:11 PM
 
Location: Back at home in western Washington!
1,490 posts, read 4,756,808 times
Reputation: 3244

Advertisements

Sorry Mattie...the computer gods tell me I have to spread it around before I can rep you again. Would if I could though!!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-24-2014, 09:58 AM
 
Location: River North, Chicago, Illinois
4,619 posts, read 8,173,422 times
Reputation: 6321
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrandviewGloria View Post
...
[/b]And I think it's equally important to keep repeating that plenty of young people steer clear of the unhealthy groupthink of "everybody". We explained that only a tiny minority of people end up doing well in life and amassing serious net worth. And most of those were the ones who managed to steer clear of the idiocy prevailing as the "norm". We loved to use the example of Benoit Mandelbrot, who discovered Fractals. Mandelbrot survived the Holocaust as a kid, because he didn't go along with what "everybody else" was doing. "Everybody else" ended up gassed at Auschwitz, because they "did what they were supposed to do". So, just because someone is telling you that you're "supposed to" "experiment" when you're young, and "supposed to" play football, or "supposed to" put money into mutual funds, or "supposed to" sell short because everybody else is in a panic, that doesn't mean it's smart to do so.
Yes, it is important to avoid groupthink. I'm a very independent person, and I make my own decisions by doing my own research.

But I also know a lot of "independent" people who simply swap one groupthink for another. Which is really no better. Doing what one smaller group thinks is best doesn't mean you're any better of than doing what the majority group thinks is best.

And equally important is that simply being rebellious against the majority consensus for the sake of avoiding groupthink is also a mistake. Sometimes majority consensus is right. In fact, I would say that most of the time it is - groups come to do things, most of the time, because it's a good way of doing things. Doing things differently just for the sake of doing them differently is no more a virtue than doing the same thing as everyone else - I've seen people really screw themselves over simply because they refused to do what everyone else was doing.

Teach kids real logic, real research skills, real scientific method, and tell them that, most of the time, the majority is right but that they shouldn't blindly follow is the best tactic. Teach them to pick and choose their battles wisely, based on the seriousness of the issue and how well they can reasonably find the information that is necessary to make an informed, logical decision about how to act. It would be absurd to to a full investigation and evaluation of every possible action we make in life, but knowing when the extra effort is worthwhile is almost as important (and sometimes more important) than knowing how to do that full investigation and evaluation.

In short, teach kids to live within society, but to be aware that sometimes society is wrong and that knowing how to determine good from bad is a critical life skill. Also teach them that making mistakes is part of life. Sometimes even with the best research possible, they will make a bad choice. And that's ok - that shouldn't be devastating to them, resiliency is important.

I'm not particularly Christian, but for those who are, that last paragraph could be thought of as within the Gospel's admonishment to be "in the world, but not of the world."
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-24-2014, 10:24 AM
 
25,619 posts, read 36,707,101 times
Reputation: 23295
It's like guns, teach them to be responsible with and around it all their lives.

That letter is indicative of the prevailing US culture that creates a problem where none should exist or in the very least be a minimal problem.

Far more dangers around every corner of life than a bottle of alcohol in the cabinet.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-24-2014, 11:05 AM
 
Location: Shawnee-on-Delaware, PA
8,079 posts, read 7,444,309 times
Reputation: 16351
Quote:
Whenever my family or friends ask about Tom and marvel at the fact that he is now a teenager, the subject of alcohol and drugs always seems to come up. As in, how will I handle it when he comes home drunk for the first time? Or what will I do if I find out that he's been using drugs?
Always? The kid's just entering 10th grade and people always want to know how the blogger will handle it when the kid comes home drunk?

Well, I suppose the blogger's family and friends know them a little better than I do, so I won't comment any further.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-24-2014, 11:29 AM
 
Location: River North, Chicago, Illinois
4,619 posts, read 8,173,422 times
Reputation: 6321
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtab4994 View Post
Always? The kid's just entering 10th grade and people always want to know how the blogger will handle it when the kid comes home drunk?

Well, I suppose the blogger's family and friends know them a little better than I do, so I won't comment any further.
I never came home drunk. My parents were pretty low-key, and didn't want me to drink but didn't come down with an iron fist. I never drank at all until I was 23 and never tried any drugs until nearly twice that age, and I chose that for my own life of my own accord because of what I wanted out of life. For smoking they said smoking is bad for you, but that if I wanted to smoke they'd buy a pack of cigarettes and smoke them with me. I didn't really like cigarette smoke, but some of my friends smoked and I might have been tempted to smoke at some point - but I didn't like the idea of hurting my parents physical health. It was a pretty clever way to get me to make my own decisions and think more about the real impact of smoking on health. My mother's father smoked until the day he died, as he and my mother got along fine so while my parents disapprove of smoking they don't consider it particularly evil or sinful, just unhealthy.

For many kids, making drugs and alcohol about adhering to parents rules is the wrong way to go about it because then using them becomes about rebellion and exerting independence. Making drugs and alcohol use about keeping one's options open in life, being able to do what one wants in life, and making one's own decisions works a lot better with most kids. But that strategy for child-rearing has to be started far before they become teens, it's a strategy that needs to start before they start school. As a parent, you don't want kids making bad choices just to show that they're independent of you, so it's key to not make bad things seem like they're just rules or regulations. They need to be choices that kids choose not to participate in because want to choose what's best for themselves, not just to toe some seemingly arbitrary line drawn by an authority figure.

Last edited by emathias; 07-24-2014 at 11:38 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-24-2014, 11:36 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,297 posts, read 120,779,853 times
Reputation: 35920
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtab4994 View Post
Always? The kid's just entering 10th grade and people always want to know how the blogger will handle it when the kid comes home drunk?

Well, I suppose the blogger's family and friends know them a little better than I do, so I won't comment any further.
Sure, let's argue about the use of the word "always", as opposed to "often" or "regularly". I think you get the gist.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-24-2014, 11:37 AM
 
Location: Chapel Hill, N.C.
36,499 posts, read 54,093,051 times
Reputation: 47919
My first two now-grown kids were raised in the suburbs of Atlanta. Atlanta and environs traffic is extremely dangerous. Believe me parents were ALWAYS (Frequently, Often )talking to each other about drinking and the kids getting on the interstate to go into Atlanta. It was a constant worry. We tried very hard to create activities and opportunities so they didn't have to try the interstate-especially at night. We talked about drugs and alcohol. We also knew they could just as easily drink and drive on country roads but the interstate was especially scary. BTW I doubt alcohol is involved in the majority of fatal wreck on the interstate in Atlanta. I stopped driving it even in daylight and stone sober after my 3rd encounter with a flying mattresses.

I know both tried grass and booze in high school. Neither was really "into" either one but I know son has been drunk while daughter is Asian and can't handle alcohol very well so she knows when to stop. She gets that Asian Flush and her friends tell her when her face is red and she immediately puts down her drink. I also know son smoked pot in graduate school which made me nervous.

Now we have these two 12 year olds and yes we talk to them and show them stories of teens who shop lift, drink, smoke, get pregnant, and other reckless behavior. I think education started early is a good thing.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-24-2014, 03:33 PM
 
22,278 posts, read 21,733,087 times
Reputation: 54735
So assume you have talked to them about sex, sexuality, birth control, STDs, date rape, masturbation, etc?

Good! By 12 every child should know and be able to discuss these things with parents! Early, unprotected and unwanted sex are the things that can really ruin young girls' lives.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-24-2014, 03:51 PM
 
Location: The Midwest
2,966 posts, read 3,917,208 times
Reputation: 5329
It's a good piece. I have told my kids that I do not and will not condone underage drinking and certainly don't have the "oh, well, all kids do it at some point so a little drinking here and there is no big deal" attitude, however I have also made it clear that should they put themselves in a condition in which they cannot drive home or are in danger, I will come get them. However disappointed I may be, I would rather have a drunk child than a dead child or a child who kills someone.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-24-2014, 03:52 PM
 
Location: Chapel Hill, N.C.
36,499 posts, read 54,093,051 times
Reputation: 47919
Quote:
Originally Posted by zentropa View Post
So assume you have talked to them about sex, sexuality, birth control, STDs, date rape, masturbation, etc?

Good! By 12 every child should know and be able to discuss these things with parents! Early, unprotected and unwanted sex are the things that can really ruin young girls' lives.
Why yes I have.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Parenting

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:40 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top