Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Okay, the Autism Spectrum Disorder diagnosis is rising, why?
1. Years ago we used to label kids who were autistic as mentally retarded. Lack of information in making a differential diagnosis.
2. Parents don't want their child to be mentally retarded, they want the diagnosis of "autism" even if the child is actually MR. I have seen parents actually argue with school psychologists regarding the diagnosis, why? More services are available for children with autism than MR, also Autism is seen as "less' severe as MR, and it is less threatening to parents. Most school personell will defer to parents, wishes rather than argue the point.
3. Kids who used to be just 'strange" and did not fit in, who actually had PDD, pervasive developmental disorder, or were high functioning autistic, were not diagnosed at all. Now, they are, that means we are better at providing services to these children, but it does not mean that there are necessarily more children with autism. Just more children are identified, due to changes in Special Education reporting requirements.
Mmphm. Okay...what if? I have a hard time making medical decisions for myself or my children based on unsubstantiated what ifs, for a couple of reasons.
1. I have a certain bias when it comes to non-vaxed children, to be honest: For one thing, my older sister had polio; for another, I was exposed to rubella while I was pregnant courtesy of an acquaintance's child. Vax or don't, they're your kids. But keep them home if they're germy, please. And yes, I feel the same way about the kid at the park or at school with strep or the flu. (In fact, don't come to work and cough all over my desk, either.)
2. I have an even harder time thinking I'd rather have my daughter dead from whooping cough or stillborn because of rubella than autistic. There's no guarantee that unvaxed kids will get "the mildest of cases"-- in fact, a Florida boy died not too long ago from chicken pox. I kind of doubt his family's wandering around thinking, "gee, close call, he could have been autistic and that would really be bad".
3. And even that assumes a creditable link between vaccines and autism....which thus far, is unsubstantiated.
Where you and your sister vaccinated as children?
If your children are vaccinated, then what difference does it make if say my children did catch one of those illnesses and were in close proximity with yours for example, unless that is, you are not completely confident in the vaccines true ability to do it's job?
There is a big reason that today we see a big difference between "swine" flu deaths in Mexico than the US. Their access to medical facilities is much more limited as is their education in treating symtoms, thus their death rates are higher. If we could go back in time when these illnesses were big problems in the US with the knowledge we have now, do you think that the death rates and severity of symtoms would be much lower?
Actually, to your point on whopping cough....my nephew had it....he was vaccinated. It is making a comeback and there is little vaccines can do about it. Two of my kids had it last winter. DD had got the vaccine. DS hadn't. DD was very sick while DS recovered more quickly...which is typical of any illness with them. Point is, it didn't make a difference but you'd think the two vaccinated (nephew and DD) would not have got it and with my two, DD would have the lighter case. The opposite was true.
Mild and severe cases, if the strain of say chicken pox as you stated, is the same, is not going to dictate the difference between kids. It is the individual strength of a child's immune system. The mildest of cases are kids with the strongest, healthiest immune system. While, as we hear all the time, those with immune system problems are most likely to die from illnesses.
Cases have been won in court now saying that vaccines did in fact contribute to a children's austism and more are being faught as we speak. It's no longer what if, or it's not, it's what are we going to do about it. I'm not opposed to vaccinating, I'm opposed to all the junk they put into them. It is those additives that people suspect trigger something else going on inside the body.
I agree wholeheartedly with #1. I'm on the same boat. I have even more reason, especially with DD who always goes into the severe category everytime she gets sick. I was a work once and I asked a little girl about 4 years old to please cover her mouth. Her mother told her not to worry about it and she went right ahead and coughed right on me, literally. I got to her eye level and told her, "Are you going to see your grandma this year for Christmas?" "Uh-huh." "Do you like to see your grandma, you love her?" "Uh-huh." "Well my little girl is about your age and she would like to see her grandma for Christmas. Do you think she would like to see her grandma?" "Uh-huh." "well, if you keep coughing on me and all this stuff I have to touch and I go home to her grandma, she could get sick too. But my little girls grandma will die from it, it will kill her. How would you feel if your grandma caught germs and died because a little girl in the store shared her germs with your mommy?" "I would be sad." "Please cover your mouth. you're a big girl and know how." The mom glared at me and I said...."This is probably my MIL's last Christmas because she is dying of cancer and we'd like her alive to see it, we don't want a funeral instead of Christmas. We would also not like to have to quarantine ourselves away from her because some little kid was coughing on me and got us sick so we have to be the ones to keep ourselves from spreading it to others, you know, by keeping our kids in while they are ill. This is probably the last Christmas she'll share with her grandkids. And all it takes is everyone keeping their germs to themselves for two weeks so that can happen." She just looked down at that point and ushered her daughter out of the store.
We have some weird immune problem in my family. There are cronic candida infections....boys, girls, men, women, it makes no difference. I'm not talking in our unmentionable areas, although that happens, but some have it growing in their sinus area. There is a lot of extreme fatigue, getting sick and recovering more slowly than most, getting peunemonia and other infections easily, some have bad adult acne, ect, ect. Everyone is reacting in different ways. We've all been checked for a wide variety of things from diabetes to mono. Doctors pass it off and let us all down. I am the only one who is fighting to get this figured out. Unfortunately, my doc is being like all the rest and trying to say its depression. It's not, he just doesn't believe it could possibly be adrenal disease, which I suspect based on some of my own symptoms...I've been in twice with dangerously low sodium and potassium, a main sign for adernal disease.
All I know is that there are risks for people, autism aside, with immune issues when taking vaccines. Vaccines are not suppose to be given to people with these problems but they won't even test for them. I need to evaluate my full hands of cards and decide whether I'm going to play a chance. I'm not. I know that the risks are bad if my kids encounter the diseases but the chances of the vaccine hurting them (obviously cause my son nearly DIED) is much higher than the risk of actually coming in contact with those diseases.
For the record, my sister's kids are vaccinated and EVERYTIME we see them, we get sick. They don't look sick but they've got something bacterial they are carriers for. Everytime, it doesn't fail, we're throwing up. But other than that, we don't really get sick all that often. The one who has big problems when they do is DD, the one with the most vaccines. If it is true, and she has something immune wrong with her, vaccines could have made that worse for her. There is no proof. All I can do is look at my own experience and tell you, I'm not going to risk one of my kids dying because of vaccines. If my son would have died, I would have lived with the guilt of killing him.
What alarms me is that when I went to school I can only remember one student with classic autism symptoms. Now, each of my children always has at least one autistic child in their classrooms. It leads me to believe that there must be some type of environmental factor involved even if the actual numbers in the report cited by the OP have been somewhat exagerated.
Part of that is also due to a change in educational philosophy. Twenty or thirty years ago, hand-flapping would get you a ride on the other school bus and a separate school, or at least a separate classroom, no matter whether you were otherwise bright, average or delayed. That's less likely to be thedefault option now.
Not many college graduates today could pass a test like that, even if they were reading at age 4.
The math actually is a bit lower level than my 11 year old is doing now (he was reading at 5, does that count?). <g>
Aside from that, I think the biggest discrepancy you'd find is that some of the references are either geocentric or archaic-- kids in Florida and Alaska probably know bugger-all about Kansan climate issues, and even the average grown-up doesn't discuss tares in the course of a day. And references to "the Rebellion" would be completely lost on the average Southern kid-- though they'd probably be able to answer the question vis-a-vis "The War Between the States", "the Civil War", or "the War of Northern Aggression" (and many could tell you which ancestor died where.)
OTOH, I doubt the kids of 1895 Salinas County were learning basic computer programming, or Spanish/Chinese/Japanese/what have you, or principles of research. It's reasonable to expect that what is being taught would change with societal needs-- in fact, it's alarming to think it mightn't.
I was. The polio vaccine was available only after my sister contracted it. (We're old.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by flik_becky
If your children are vaccinated, then what difference does it make if say my children did catch one of those illnesses and were in close proximity with yours for example, unless that is, you are not completely confident in the vaccines true ability to do it's job?
I'm educated enough to know that no medication is 100%, and that even those with reasonable personal immunity can be carriers (which explains how I had chicken pox twice, and how my vaccinated kids brought it home from Mom's Morning Out to their 36yo father, who'd never had it somehow).
I also know that-- as with smallpox, against which children are no longer vaccinated because my generation was-- diseases tend to be eradicated in immune populations.
I'm more curious as to why you seem to feel it's a good idea to take sick kids out in public? Or do I misunderstand you? Given your coughing kid and MIL story, I would assume so...?
Quote:
Originally Posted by flik_becky
Actually, to your point on whopping cough....my nephew had it....he was vaccinated. It is making a comeback and there is little vaccines can do about it. Two of my kids had it last winter. DD had got the vaccine. DS hadn't. DD was very sick while DS recovered more quickly...which is typical of any illness with them. Point is, it didn't make a difference but you'd think the two vaccinated (nephew and DD) would not have got it and with my two, DD would have the lighter case. The opposite was true.
The reason pertussis is making a comeback is that there is a wide pool of children who have no immunity. The pertussis vaccine was the first to be avoided, even twenty-five years ago-- and consequently that pool of available hosts is significant enough to incubate a number of variations. What you describe is exactly what was being posited when people first decided the pertussis vaccine was unnecessary.
Quote:
Originally Posted by flik_becky
Cases have been won in court now saying that vaccines did in fact contribute to a children's austism and more are being faught as we speak. It's no longer what if, or it's not, it's what are we going to do about it. I'm not opposed to vaccinating, I'm opposed to all the junk they put into them. It is those additives that people suspect trigger something else going on inside the body.
In the interest of honesty, one needs to acknowledge that court victories exist on all sides of that argument, and that law does not necessarily parallel science.
As for "all the junk"...I'll agree that there are additives which are probably unnecessary. We chose thimerosol-free vaccines because there was no reason not to, not because I thought the thimerosol was going to make my already-autistic kid moreso. I avoid a lot of things because they aren't strictly necessary-- thimerosol, aspartame, hormones in milk, brussels sprouts, polyester clothing, Playstations...
Quote:
Originally Posted by flik_becky
For the record, my sister's kids are vaccinated and EVERYTIME we see them, we get sick. They don't look sick but they've got something bacterial they are carriers for. Everytime, it doesn't fail, we're throwing up. But other than that, we don't really get sick all that often.
I don't understand. You expect a measles vaccine or a chicken pox vaccine to protect you against gastroenteritis or a chest cough?
I think that when people only investigate claims to back up your personal opinions or heresay, then you'll find just that. Your fears will be absolutely supported since you're only looking at what you want to see.
For example, I could investigate my pain on my upper left side and freak myself out that I have pancreatic cancer. Pretty soon, I'm obsessing about actually having it and researching all the information to back up my fear. Then I go to my doctor begging for all the tests to prove that I don't have it, etc. See where I'm going with this? It's pure hysteria and one sided information seeking via the internet. It's so easy to get caught up in the fear rather than stepping back.
The whole vaccine causes autism scaremongering has been debunked... over and over again. The problem lies with all the time consuming research that has to be funded to continue to appease the scare tactics and misinformation by people that believe untruths. Don't you think it's time to move on and allow money to go to finding out what really causes it? Again, many studies have debunked the myths that are circulating amongst people with no medical backgrounds..
At what point if any will people get over the myths associated with autism? I find it so disturbing that people believe actors, neighbors, and myth, over researchers, doctors, scientists. I have a daughter with a spectrum disorder, btw. So does my brother in law who is 40 yrs old...wasn't actually diagnosed until recently..so perhaps doctors are more informed on the signs earlier than they used to, hence the rise in rates.
I'm not going to spend my day trying to dig up all the information that nulls and voids your own. I'm positive that you wouldn't read/or believe it anyway since you're so convinced already. What's dangerous is that you're trying to convince others to be equally fearful and paranoid with misinformation. This sadly seems to be the way of things now days.
I was. The polio vaccine was available only after my sister contracted it. (We're old.)
So the vaccine did not work.
I'm educated enough to know that no medication is 100%, and that even those with reasonable personal immunity can be carriers (which explains how I had chicken pox twice, and how my vaccinated kids brought it home from Mom's Morning Out to their 36yo father, who'd never had it somehow).
I also know that-- as with smallpox, against which children are no longer vaccinated because my generation was-- diseases tend to be eradicated in immune populations.
I'm more curious as to why you seem to feel it's a good idea to take sick kids out in public? Or do I misunderstand you? Given your coughing kid and MIL story, I would assume so...?
I don't think it is a good idea to take sick kids out. I was agreeing with you. We incubated ourselves for two weeks after the last symtom of any illness was seen before seeing her. The risks were too high. We were in self-isolation with our kids the two weeks before Christmas that year. DH and I were the only to leave the house. We avoided sick people, shopping late at night or early in the morning, planning one big trip instead of many, shopped for all the food we'd need for two weeks, ect but I still had to go to work. I avoided sick people there are well. If people were so self involved that they felt that their wants (were I worked was not did not have any "needs" items) before their kids needs and allowed to spread their germs by not insisting they cover their mouths or they themselves would cough on me, I would politely ask them not to do it. If they were rude about it, I would not help them. It was not worth the risk. I would avoid people who were obviously sick by staying far away from them or sending someone else to assist them. My coworks knew what was going on and more than willing to help with that. It was, by the way, the very last Christmas we spent with my mother in law.
The reason pertussis is making a comeback is that there is a wide pool of children who have no immunity. The pertussis vaccine was the first to be avoided, even twenty-five years ago-- and consequently that pool of available hosts is significant enough to incubate a number of variations. What you describe is exactly what was being posited when people first decided the pertussis vaccine was unnecessary.
I mean that kids with the vaccine are getting sick.
In the interest of honesty, one needs to acknowledge that court victories exist on all sides of that argument, and that law does not necessarily parallel science.
As for "all the junk"...I'll agree that there are additives which are probably unnecessary. We chose thimerosol-free vaccines because there was no reason not to, not because I thought the thimerosol was going to make my already-autistic kid moreso. I avoid a lot of things because they aren't strictly necessary-- thimerosol, aspartame, hormones in milk, brussels sprouts, polyester clothing, Playstations...
Thirmersol is now being replaced by aluminum, that is hardly a trade off that I am personally ok with considering the proven and accepted connections that it offers.
I don't understand. You expect a measles vaccine or a chicken pox vaccine to protect you against gastroenteritis or a chest cough?
I don't expect them to protect me against anything. I have had chicken pox and realize that there is no need to be vaccinated to against it. It is like saying, "I like in a big city to avoid bears." Chances are, living in the country, you are not going to be injured or killed by a bear. You will probably rarely see them.
Thirmersol is now being replaced by aluminum, that is hardly a trade off that I am personally ok with considering the proven and accepted connections that it offers.
Thimerosal is a preservative, and aluminum salts are adjuvants. One cannot replace the other, because they have completely different functions. Anyways, aluminum salt adjuvants aren't new - they've been in some vaccines for ~75 years. Their safety in vaccines is well-established.
. It compares austism, vaccine and morality under the age of 5 rates side by side.
Wait, morality? WTF does something societally subjective have to do with autism?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
