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I'm scared already I already know from thorough research that most civil stuff doesn't go beyond the border. I am not asking if it's a dumb idea. I already know for a fact that it is not, if the circumstances in the US are bad enough. I asked the question to see why more people don't do it and I see that the reason is that most people are too pussified to have the balls for this type of escape.
Lol I already have. I am not a ghetto minority kid and neither are my friends. We are white suburbanites. They did not object to my course of action as they also think the educational system in this country is rigged to keep people in debt. Lol I have been through stuff 10x worse than what I am contemplating doing now and I'm fine. Lol student loans will weigh on me?
Ok suburban kid who has it all figured out, have at it. All us adults never made any mistakes, never learned from them, we just make up all this stuff to keep you kids in your places. Yep, you figured it out! Going to be a big success you are
Ever consider that more people don't do it because it is indeed a dumb idea? You think that it's because people lack balls? Stupid is as stupid does.
So go for it! The shoe clearly fits, wear it with pride!
Location: East Central Pennsylvania/ Chicago for 6yrs.
2,535 posts, read 3,282,012 times
Reputation: 1483
It's a ghetto mentality. Take what you can. If I can USE you? I will do it. Any type of premeditation to do it. Take something and with the INTENT of NOT returning it???? or The Stimulation is it is being JUST BORROWED??? TO BE PAYED BACK? BUT YOUR PLAN ALL ALONG IS NOT TO????It still is STEALING. What makes you think you are BETTER TO HAVE A PLAN TO BORROW WITH INTENT NOT TO PAY BACK?????AND NOT SEE IT IS STILL STEALING? WE are still all the government taxes pay for others in need. Making it a PLAN TO USE FUNDING GIVEN UNDER TERMS AS A LOAN AND PREMEDITATE A PLAN TO NOT FOLLOW THE RULES THEN CROSSES TO THE SAME MENTALITY ANY CRIMINAL TYPE perceives it....
---They are owed it
---If they can use you can take it
---you make it easy to take... makes me smart to help myself
The list can go on what people conclude makes it ok???
I don't care what kind of debt/lawsuits we are talking about: student loans, unpaid taxes, child support, spousal support, divorce settlements, civil court orders, etc. Imagine any type of BIG $ debt and this thread applies.
Why the hell do people seriously bother with any of that garbage? If people have big dollar debts, they would not have to pay/deal with that stuff if they just left the country. The situation with student loans is a ripoff and scandal, as many people have already said in the past. The family court system is even worse and treats men like slaves.
I am in my mid 20s, hence I never went through the family court system. I have some student loans and I am seriously thinking about going back to school, running up the tab, and then leaving the country. I am a dual citizen in an EU country (where most of my family lives anyway) so that is not much of a stretch if we are talking frankly. If things went horribly wrong with a future girlfriend/wife and she wanted to sue me in family court, I would simply leave the country and live off the radar for the rest of my life. That sure beats getting raped in family court by some Marxist judge.
That being said, why don't more people leave the US to avoid enormous debts? It's a strategy that works if executed well. For some people, it could save money in the long run if their income is very low and the debt is very high. I realize that the majority of people are too sheepish and scared to do something like this, but American society also has plenty of bold and daring people as well.
Ha.
OK, setting aside all the moral/ethical reasons why this would be a bad idea, let's focus on the practical.
First off, just "getting up and leaving the country" isn't that easy. There are costs to getting out of the country and travelling elsewhere. If you "have enormous debts" your creditors won't necessarily stop at the US border, many have a multinational presence and can get enforcements against you in other countries, so you'd have similar issues to staying in the US. As others have pointed out, getting decent jobs (other than itinerant day-laborer or off-the-books-bartender or the like) will be very difficult as most employers do basic background checks. For most people becoming a legal permanent resident in a foreign country is not easy.
Now, in your case you are a dual citizen who can easily move to a foreign country, but again, the debts would be on your record, employers doing background checks would uncover them, and so on. It would continue to hang over your head for a long time and inhibit your ability to work and live your life. Yes, there are ways around that (live "off-the-books" and below the radar, but that generally means taking disagreeable, low paying jobs with questionable employers and living in unpleasant surroundings).
So, that's the practicalities of it.
As also noted, it's not just making sure "the authorities" don't track you down, it's also not telling most people any of this, as the vast majority of people will respond as they have in this thread. YOU may have convinced yourself it's a "bold and daring" thing that makes you extraordinary and everyone else timid sheep, but the reality is that it's essentially theft and you will be judged accordingly.
The problem for you is that you apparently have no idea how you come across in your brief post and in other posts in this thread, but if this is any example of your thought processes you'll probably mess up quite a bit in your life and be stunned that there are consequences (not merely legal, but in your interactions with others), and I won't be shocked if you blame everyone but yourself for that (that darn "Marxist judge", because you're a real self-supporting man who is just being taken down by an unjust society. Yeah, that's the ticket! ). Yeah, you sound like a real peach. I'm sure the girls are just flocking to you as well, even though you're fearing they'll sue you in family court (for what, I have no idea, since you're likely to have no assets, piles of debt, and limited career prospects ).
I'd assume you're just trolling the board, but sadly I've learned there are people who are crazier/more clueless naturally than I could be if I tried to be a troll. So...hey, give it a shot, since you're thinking about it! Let us know in ten years how it worked out!
"Nobody ever succeeded in life by running from their problem
instead of looking it dead in the eyes and solving it."
Rubbish. Every person the immigrated to the U.S. while under duress made that choice, and many succeeded beyond their wildest dreams.
The morality issue comes down to what your personal moral standards are compared to the standards of those in judgment. If, because I self-published a book and some judge ruled that I was violating laws protecting a cartel of publishers, and claimed I owed a million dollar fine, I would be gone in a shot or live in poverty. My personal moral standards would not allow collusion with such an egregious ruling.
If the judgment was for an honest debt I incurred, I would attempt to work it out. More likely though, I wouldn't get myself in a situation where I owed a ridiculous amount of money. Over many years, I have found that those who demand lots of money in return for a product or service rarely deliver or have any moral "rights" to as much as has been paid to them.
On a practical basis, many, if not most countries have quotas and limitations and laws concerning those who immigrate. Getting into Switzerland is nearly impossible, and so on. With many banks being multi-nationals, freezing or taking money in accounts is more easy. Bluntly, the countries where one might succeed in evasion are the ones where rule of law is minimal and controlled by those with the biggest bribes. Further, laws in some countries are MUCH more restrictive than the U.S..
Ok suburban kid who has it all figured out, have at it. All us adults never made any mistakes, never learned from them, we just make up all this stuff to keep you kids in your places. Yep, you figured it out! Going to be a big success you are
Ever consider that more people don't do it because it is indeed a dumb idea? You think that it's because people lack balls? Stupid is as stupid does.
So go for it! The shoe clearly fits, wear it with pride!
Lmfao, ignorance at its finest. What do you propose people do if they have a gold digger ex wife who is trying to take them to the cleaners? What do you propose if someone has over 200k in student loans? Sitting around and getting screwed by the system is not a desirable outcome. Oftentimes, the smartest people in a group are the ones who know when to leave and seek opportunities elsewhere. Why do you think anyone anywhere in the world would bother to leave their country and go to a new one?
Quote:
Originally Posted by steeps
It's a ghetto mentality. Take what you can. If I can USE you? I will do it. Any type of premeditation to do it. Take something and with the INTENT of NOT returning it???? or The Stimulation is it is being JUST BORROWED??? TO BE PAYED BACK? BUT YOUR PLAN ALL ALONG IS NOT TO????It still is STEALING. What makes you think you are BETTER TO HAVE A PLAN TO BORROW WITH INTENT NOT TO PAY BACK?????AND NOT SEE IT IS STILL STEALING? WE are still all the government taxes pay for others in need. Making it a PLAN TO USE FUNDING GIVEN UNDER TERMS AS A LOAN AND PREMEDITATE A PLAN TO NOT FOLLOW THE RULES THEN CROSSES TO THE SAME MENTALITY ANY CRIMINAL TYPE perceives it....
---They are owed it
---If they can use you can take it
---you make it easy to take... makes me smart to help myself
The list can go on what people conclude makes it ok???
Again it shows lack of Character
It's not a ghetto mentality, it's a human mentality. It is perfectly normal for people to look around, see what resources are available to them, and then devise a game plan for advancing in life using those resources. The rich have more than enough resources at their fingertips, hence they can usually just pay for a lot of things outright in cash, as opposed to people with fewer resources who have few options available. Just be happy that in my particular case, I'm interested in using the money for education and not drugs. You seem like the type of teabag nut who would make people repay food stamps benefits if they ever get out of poverty and force kids to volunteer for the government over the summer to be able to attend HS and college
Quote:
Originally Posted by synchronicity
Ha.
OK, setting aside all the moral/ethical reasons why this would be a bad idea, let's focus on the practical.
First off, just "getting up and leaving the country" isn't that easy. There are costs to getting out of the country and travelling elsewhere. If you "have enormous debts" your creditors won't necessarily stop at the US border, many have a multinational presence and can get enforcements against you in other countries, so you'd have similar issues to staying in the US. As others have pointed out, getting decent jobs (other than itinerant day-laborer or off-the-books-bartender or the like) will be very difficult as most employers do basic background checks. For most people becoming a legal permanent resident in a foreign country is not easy.
Now, in your case you are a dual citizen who can easily move to a foreign country, but again, the debts would be on your record, employers doing background checks would uncover them, and so on. It would continue to hang over your head for a long time and inhibit your ability to work and live your life. Yes, there are ways around that (live "off-the-books" and below the radar, but that generally means taking disagreeable, low paying jobs with questionable employers and living in unpleasant surroundings).
So, that's the practicalities of it.
As also noted, it's not just making sure "the authorities" don't track you down, it's also not telling most people any of this, as the vast majority of people will respond as they have in this thread. YOU may have convinced yourself it's a "bold and daring" thing that makes you extraordinary and everyone else timid sheep, but the reality is that it's essentially theft and you will be judged accordingly.
The problem for you is that you apparently have no idea how you come across in your brief post and in other posts in this thread, but if this is any example of your thought processes you'll probably mess up quite a bit in your life and be stunned that there are consequences (not merely legal, but in your interactions with others), and I won't be shocked if you blame everyone but yourself for that (that darn "Marxist judge", because you're a real self-supporting man who is just being taken down by an unjust society. Yeah, that's the ticket! ). Yeah, you sound like a real peach. I'm sure the girls are just flocking to you as well, even though you're fearing they'll sue you in family court (for what, I have no idea, since you're likely to have no assets, piles of debt, and limited career prospects ).
I'd assume you're just trolling the board, but sadly I've learned there are people who are crazier/more clueless naturally than I could be if I tried to be a troll. So...hey, give it a shot, since you're thinking about it! Let us know in ten years how it worked out!
There are plenty of people in this world who have student loans and they are able to get jobs. You make it sound like having a lot of debt is like molesting a kid. The only thing that would require more stealth is unpaid child support and/or if you kidnap your kid. Other than that, I don't see why it would be so hard to get a job. It's not as if student loans or an unpaid court order are the same as being on the FBI top 10 list for cannibalizing babies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by harry chickpea
"Nobody ever succeeded in life by running from their problem
instead of looking it dead in the eyes and solving it."
Rubbish. Every person the immigrated to the U.S. while under duress made that choice, and many succeeded beyond their wildest dreams.
The morality issue comes down to what your personal moral standards are compared to the standards of those in judgment. If, because I self-published a book and some judge ruled that I was violating laws protecting a cartel of publishers, and claimed I owed a million dollar fine, I would be gone in a shot or live in poverty. My personal moral standards would not allow collusion with such an egregious ruling.
If the judgment was for an honest debt I incurred, I would attempt to work it out. More likely though, I wouldn't get myself in a situation where I owed a ridiculous amount of money. Over many years, I have found that those who demand lots of money in return for a product or service rarely deliver or have any moral "rights" to as much as has been paid to them.
On a practical basis, many, if not most countries have quotas and limitations and laws concerning those who immigrate. Getting into Switzerland is nearly impossible, and so on. With many banks being multi-nationals, freezing or taking money in accounts is more easy. Bluntly, the countries where one might succeed in evasion are the ones where rule of law is minimal and controlled by those with the biggest bribes. Further, laws in some countries are MUCH more restrictive than the U.S..
I have you say your post is the most well balanced on the thread so far.
Lmfao, ignorance at its finest. What do you propose people do if they have a gold digger ex wife who is trying to take them to the cleaners? What do you propose if someone has over 200k in student loans? Sitting around and getting screwed by the system is not a desirable outcome. Oftentimes, the smartest people in a group are the ones who know when to leave and seek opportunities elsewhere. Why do you think anyone anywhere in the world would bother to leave their country and go to a new one?
Yeah kid, you keep telling yourself that it's really because you are so smart and the rest of us are sooooo dumb. That's gotta be it. No one else has ever had these problems before, no one else has ever considered that fraud might be the way out. You're the first one!
Seriously, go for it. Get to it. Don't look for the tacit approval of a bunch of random strangers on the net. You're smarter than all of us, remember?
As I said, the shoe fits, why not wear it?
Here's a thought for you genius. Go to that new country without ditching a bunch of debt. You haven't run up the tab yet if I remember right. Just head out now and leave all us morons behind. The world is your oyster after all, you don't need us idiots.
Location: East Central Pennsylvania/ Chicago for 6yrs.
2,535 posts, read 3,282,012 times
Reputation: 1483
I sure hope the OP with $200,000 in student loan debts? Is a Doctor or have PHD's ECT. Something substantial?? From his comments, he would admit few mistakes? I don't think he is going to accept any criticism??
But we wish him well. Hope he becomes a successful asset to society for...OUR aid from .. THE US Taxpayers even if he defaults on these loans??
I wouldn't do it because never know if you ever want to go back to US (if things go bad in Europe or something). Plus never know if US government pass a law with UN someday that they can get you and make you pay. And another reason I wouldn't risk it not because I'm "sheepish and scared", but simply because of Karma (what goes around comes around). You can believe it or not, but there is the balance in this world. You steal, you lose something later. You help someone in need, you win something big later. I mean, just think if it worth it for you.
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I already know from thorough research that most civil stuff doesn't go beyond the border. I am not asking if it's a dumb idea. I already know for a fact that it is not, if the circumstances in the US are bad enough. I asked the question to see why more people don't do it and I see that the reason is that most people are too pussified to have the balls for this type of escape.
).
