[Trimac20]

Is it really right to deny them the pleasures of sex, which we so freely enjoy, because it's an inconvenience to us? To basically make them eunuchs? Maybe female pets don't care as much and they technically can still be mounted, but, in all seriousness, there's something strangely disturbing about the whole idea.

I mean from a practical point of view it's better for everyone. Better behaved dogs and cats, less unwanted puppies that might end up in the pound and be put down. So I guess in the long run it is justified. But could a case be made for 'animal rights', that we're sort of curtailing their natural urges?

It's been shown that domestication is basically a process of 'infantilization' anyway. Those individuals with more 'juvenile' behavioural characteristics: dependency, being docile, friendly, were bred (such features which would not be an advantage in the wild) so that they would 'love' us.


This is more a philosophical discussion. I'm not actually arguing we ban the practice of desexing pets. Nor am I taking one point or the other. I guess it's related to the question of whether even keeping pets is ethical.

[jsqueezer]

Interesting question. What would be the ethical alternative to de-sexing? To stopping our "domestication" of these animals? Is there one? Where would it lead?

A hands-off practice would realistically amount to great roaming herds of dogs and cats (well, dogs anyway, since they are essentially pack animals... thank you, Cesar Milan) who fight and kill weaker members of the herd. The herd would grow stronger, multiplying exponentially, traveling constantly in search of food.

Since they now can breed and enjoy sex whenever a fertile female is available, the female dogs would likely live shorter, more desperate lives, due to multiple litters. Many puppies would be killed off by competing alpha males. Same would probably be true for cats and kittens. Natural selection at work!

Then we have carcasses everywhere. Who removes them? Do the dogs and cats eat the carcasses? Do humans start hunting cats and dogs and eating them? They are no longer domesticated pets so they can realistically be viewed as just another food source, like cows and chickens.

Oh wait... we domesticate those animals, in that we "keep" them, feed them, etc. We could probably do that also. Pen the dogs up, let them breed, then slaughter them and sell the meat. Probably harder to pen up cats, but maybe housing similar to chicken coops could work.

Did someone say SELL? That means PROFIT!!! So we'd probably go for the big breed dogs. Why keep a Pomeranian or Yorkie? Not enough meat. Same for cats. Not enough flesh, unless we interfered with breeding somehow (a no-no, if we decide to let fertility take its course) and created a super-meaty cat.

So yes, ethically in a far, dytopian future, I can envision such a thing. As I said.... interesting thing to ponder.

[saganista]

I think that if you are willing to provide about 15 years worth of food, shelter, and medical care to every single offspring that your pets might ever produce just to please your own imagination, that's fine. If you instead intend just to dump them all off at the shelter because, after all, you can't be expected to be responsible for them, that's not so fine. Better to tell your pet on the way over to the clinic that millions of humans have had vasectomies and tubal ligations and lead perfectly happy and fulfilled baby-free lives. Like those folks, little Fido and Muffy should feel free to have sex any time they feel like it. Just no puppies or kittens, thank you.

[jsqueezer]

Not trying to be contrary (really!) but how do we know that dogs "enjoy" sex or find it pleasurable? Are we anthropomorphizing them, attributing our own needs/desires/pleasures to animals? Maybe the sex drive we see and attribute to enjoyment is strictly a biological imperative to increase the species, caused by hormonal response only. How do we know there is brain activity registering pleasure or displeasure?

[miu]

Dogs and cats don't enjoy sex the way humans do. With animals, it's all about sex for fertilization and there is no love or affection involved. With felines, the end of the sexual act is very painful for the female. And with unneutered male dogs and cats, the males are very frustrated when they smell a female in heat and can't mate with it. And with unneutered male cats, they will get into more intense territorial fights with other unneutered male cats and end up with many battle scars all over their bodies.

With unspayed females, having many litters of babies is extremely rough on their bodies. Not only just in the birthing of them, but also once the nursing babies get their baby teeth. One man told me that his pitbull female died after the rough nursing from a large litter of puppies. And I adopted a pregnant dog and saw that she didn't enjoy nursing her puppies after only a month. So I started to keep the puppies separate from her and then let only one puppy nurse at a time with her. And I also fed the puppies myself.

Our domesticated pets live a much longer, healthier and happier life not being ruled by their hormones.

[harry chickpea]

"Is it really right to deny them the pleasures of sex, which we so freely enjoy, because it's an inconvenience to us? To basically make them eunuchs? Maybe female pets don't care as much and they technically can still be mounted, but, in all seriousness, there's something strangely disturbing about the whole idea."

There is something "strangely disturbing" about having a male cat pee all over your furniture as well. There is something "strangely disturbing" about an 80 lb Labrador trying to hump you when you go to visit a friend.

There is something "strangely disturbing" about how people in today's world have become so disassociated from observing animal behavior from childhood that threads like this even occur. I'm not knocking the OP at all, it is just very very concerning that the culture in general has warped perceptions about animals, their lives, and the relationship of humans to animals. Back when at least a quarter of kids grew up on a farm, the innocent and ignorant got taught by their peers before bizarre fantasies could take hold.

[MaggieZ]

I suggest you volunteer at your local shelter a while...animals are just following nature's call by having sex. I doubt they sit and reminisce about " the great sex" they had with one particular cat or dog ....it's up to us to try to control the loads of puppies and kittens that are being dumped on the street each year and only the lucky ones end up adopted through the sheltersystem...animals are being put to sleep every day due to there being no room at the shelters. You should not humanize animals...

[AnywhereElse]

If you look at the issue further, you'll realize that mounting is a sign of dominance more often than not since both spayed and neutered dogs exhibit this behavior. We had a neutered male dog which mounted our spayed female and discontinued the behavior immediately after our female mounted him and let him know he was the newcomer! Unless the female is in heat, you are looking at dominance I do believe. Also, people who have indiscriminate sex like what the dogs would be having, well, perhaps desexing..............................

[Jo48]

When I was a child in a NYC apartment, we had a female cat. When she got her period and came into heat, it was really BAD. She would HOWL for hours and days, poor thing. So we should have let her out on the city streets, so she could mate and have a litter? Do what with the kittens? Do this every time when she came into heat? No, that is CRUEL for her, and any unwanted kittens. We had her, and subsequent male and female cats over decades, spayed and netured. ALL of them were very contented animals and lived very long (one 22 years) lives.

[Eastern Roamer]

Let me tell you what I think is more cruel than "desexing" your pet: keeping them intact and denying them sex. Next time you see a male dog with his balls a-swingin' ask the owner when the last time the dog had the opportunity to satisfy his hormonal urges. If you're not going to give the animal the opportunity to fornicate, then leaving them with the ability and urge to do so seems borderline to torture.