$3M grant for redevelopment on the North Side (E Ohio St) (Pittsburgh: middle-class, fit in)

[RogersParkTransplant]

Everyone knows I come around here to talk about Deutschtown and the adjacent area...this was just posted today, and I'm wondering if anyone has thoughts?

Corbett announces $3M grant to kick off $20M ARC House project by October Development - Pittsburgh Business Times

My initial reaction is optimism and excitement, but given that the site is so central to the neighborhood I'm a little nervous -- just hoping that the development is done nicely. A hotel+parking+apartment complex along that block has the potential to be either really good or really bad for the neighborhood, depending on whether or not it is well-designed.

Eh?

[ebyrnes]

I'm in agreement with you on this...currently that is such a sad area and awful for pedestrians; I hope that the locals are engaged in the development process so that we don't get something that doesn't fit properly or creates even more of a traffic hazard.

[eschaton]

The site is much larger than you would think from the description. It seems it would basically fill the block in again, discounting the lot associated with Teutonia Mannerchor.

As for the developer, I'm not concerned. Check out October Development's website. They've been really active in West Deutschtown already, doing a mixture of rehab and new construction which you can't even tell is new once finished. Unless the hotel demands something more conventional, I have faith that it will fit the neighborhood feel.

[RogersParkTransplant]

Oh hey, sorry I missed eschaton's earlier post on this. Part of my wondering came from trying to put together what I was seeing online about October with reading that the hotel will be a Comfort Inn - nothing against the latter in theory, just hoping they build to fit the neighborhood instead of their typical bland box style. It is indeed a big site, so hopefully they will do something nice.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by RogersParkTransplant

Oh hey, sorry I missed eschaton's earlier post on this. Part of my wondering came from trying to put together what I was seeing online about October with reading that the hotel will be a Comfort Inn - nothing against the latter in theory, just hoping they build to fit the neighborhood instead of their typical bland box style. It is indeed a big site, so hopefully they will do something nice.

To be honest, I had just posted it on another site, not here. I edited my post after seeing your response though, since I can see why it was confusing.

Regardless, any development is good development for East Deutschtown right now. I am beginning to feel confident that things will begin to turn around more. October Development, after all, has been basically filling in whole missing blocks on the other side of the highway. I'm guessing they presume this will allow them to look into doing much of the same in the eastern portion of the neighborhood.

[I_Like_Spam]

Originally Posted by ebyrnes

I'm in agreement with you on this...currently that is such a sad area and awful for pedestrians; I hope that the locals are engaged in the development process so that we don't get something that doesn't fit properly or creates even more of a traffic hazard.

The locals probably don't care for the idea at all. As the denizens of east Deutschtown are mostly poor or old, they can afford and/or will not patronize the new businesses. A Family Dollar or a McDonald's would probably be a better fit for the local population, maybe a new YMCA or other social service agency could fit in there as well.


I remember almost 20 years ago, someone on the South Side- I believe it was in the old (now razed) Walton Church building at 24th and Sarah planned a Cuban themed restaurant and nightclub and the community (still not gentrified in 1995) just didn't want it. It didn't happen.


Similarly, someone had a nightclub proposed for the old fire station at 34th and Penn over here, neighbors just didn't care for the idea, and it was beat back.


This will probably happen, because the governor's people are behind it already. But the current neighbors aren't likely that excited.

[doo dah]

"The hotel will be new a Comfort Inn by Choice Hotels, with the hotel brand working to implement a new urban model used elsewhere that will be the first in the region here."

I couldn't find any photos of the "new urban model used elsewhere etc", though.

[I_Like_Spam]

Originally Posted by doo dah

"The hotel will be new a Comfort Inn by Choice Hotels, with the hotel brand working to implement a new urban model used elsewhere that will be the first in the region here."

I couldn't find any photos of the "new urban model used elsewhere etc", though.

Here's a link to the Comfort Inn on W. 25th St. in New York.


Comfort Inn New York 18 West 25th Street

[RogersParkTransplant]

Originally Posted by I_Like_Spam

The locals probably don't care for the idea at all. As the denizens of east Deutschtown are mostly poor or old, they can afford and/or will not patronize the new businesses. A Family Dollar or a McDonald's would probably be a better fit for the local population, maybe a new YMCA or other social service agency could fit in there as well.

This will probably happen, because the governor's people are behind it already. But the current neighbors aren't likely that excited.

This is always the hard topic when a neighborhood starts to change, isn't it.

From what I read in the article, the development won't bring in a lot of new businesses looking for local patrons; the old bank building will be a restaurant/banquet space, but the rest will be a hotel, apartments, and parking. Presumably about half of the parking will go to the hotel and the apartment building...300 spaces is a lot given that they are planning 120 hotel rooms and 36 apartments, but I guess they are thinking that, as the North side grows, the demand for parking will grow with it. There's actually plenty of street parking in the area, but there's also a lot of empty homes...if new people come in to live in the neighborhood buildings, maybe more people will opt to rent off-street spaces, especially if that means you don't have to shovel snow, worry about theft, etc.

So, it's not really about the current locals patronizing new businesses; it's about bringing in more people to stay at the hotel and live in the apartments, hopefully people who will patronize businesses that already exist. Given that this spot is right by the 16th St bridge, I imagine they're looking to attract people who come to town for sports or conventions, and want to be close to the Strip District.

Meanwhile, this area of the North side already has two Family Dollars (one up in Spring Garden, one over past the Mexican War Streets), a YMCA (also by the War Streets), and businesses like Grace Period and North Side Christian Health Center in Deutschtown, all helpful for the low-income population. I just don't know how long the neighborhood will really stay low-income...I don't think it'll be rich any time soon, but I think there's a lot of young middle class people moving in who are more likely to eat at the Monterey Pub or Benjamin's rather than a new McDonald's.

I don't want to see the current population pushed out; I just want to see the empty buildings start to fill up, and given how many are being fixed up it looks like it's a middle-class crowd coming in. I realize this is a tricky subject; if property values and taxes go up, it'll be harder for the current residents to stick around...but I think the process is happening slowly enough that it'll be more of a generational change than anything else, and I hope it's not a drastic change, but rather a gentle and positive one.

[PreservationPioneer]

It looks like there will be many historic buildings lost in this development:

The 1885 Victorian commercial structure next to the bank is to be razed, as well as several houses on Phineas Street. This is one of the oldest surviving neighborhoods in the city. Some of the houses date to the 1830s Canal Era period. It is also a National Register eligible area.

I think there is good and bad to this development. Yes, it is a chopped up block, and a hotel or other development would be great there, but why does it have to be at the expense of some of the oldest houses still standing in Pittsburgh? 1830s era homes are pretty rare in Pittsburgh. Most of the homes of that vintage probably went up in flames during the great fire of 1845, or were razed for the Lower Hill and Central North Side developments during the urban renewal era. I mean, look at the houses on Phineas. They are significant compared to most of the surviving architecture in Pittsburgh. We need to start taking our history seriously, and not just looking at these buildings as "just another old house."

Overall, I think a hotel would be good for that block, but take a look at what's around it, appreciate it, and preserve it as part of the development!