Republicans survive Recall effort in WI, what will happen in PA, PGH? (Pittsburgh: health insurance, construction jobs)

[ditchdigger]

So, to the people talking up unions as a way back to the middle clacss...you're fools and need to get back into the real world.

Oookay....

If you're so smart, what is the "way back to the middle class"?

[Love2Golf09]

Originally Posted by ditchdigger

Oookay....

If you're so smart, what is the "way back to the middle class"?

I've never claimed to be smarter than the average person, nor have I claimed how to consistently grow our middle class. I'm humble enough to admit that I'm taking the easy way out in pointing out the obvious flaws in the arguments of others while offering up no solutions of my own. I'm not 100% sure what the solution is. Sure, slashing taxes and going hardcore laissez-faire should create more jobs, but the income of these jobs won't be anything close to that of a union job. I'm trying to remain optimistic that America is not in a severe decline that wi cripple a generation, but things look real bad. A job is better than no job at all. I think the best option is to realize that those high paying union jobs for unskilled workers are gone and never coming back. It's time to move on.

Want to help create more wealth for the middle class? Cut their property taxes. That can save a family $3k-$5k per year. Instead of pushing obamacare, allow insurance companies to compete in all states, lowering premiums. Instead of jerks in the city talking about taxing suburban workers, treat them as equal human beings, drill more and lower taxes on gasoline which will help everyone, even those that use public transportation. And finally, stop electing corrupt idiots like Mayor Luke that waste our tax money and spend hundreds of thousands on trash cans during a recession. Those things would start the turnaround for the middle class. But, I won't hold my breath. It's a lot easier to say "That person has stuff. Tell them to give me some!"

[MeinGlanzendMotorrad]

I love getting a job scabbing. Driving past a picket line and going in to make their money while they stand outside whining is one of the most amazing feelings.

[stburr91]

We saw international trade agreements that forced us to compete with work forces that the western world simply can't compete with, and that allowed companies to leave the country. The government turns a blind eye to illegal immigration, all of this have left the working class more or less working poor. The middle class was largely indifferent when all of this was happening, and now they are paying for it, as it was obvious that it was going to be their wages to be attacked next.

[BrianTH]

The truth is that U.S. workers create jobs for each other. Our economy is driven by household consumption, and to the extent concentrated wealth is generated for some U.S. individuals, most of it is ultimately coming from providing goods and services to non-super-wealthy households.

In that sense the very rich depend on a financially healthy workforce, just as much and in fact more so than the other way around. And what we have seen recently is the consequences of an imbalance in which the economic benefits of increased worker productivity have increasingly gone to just the highest-income individuals, a trend which isn't, and wasn't, sustainable.

[Faer]

I don't want to make a chinese sweatshop worker salary. If killing off unions to make American labor cheaper is the solution, then that is the endgame.

[BrianTH]

Incidentally, automation has killed off many more foreign jobs than foreign workers, and the only sector in which we really have lost a lot of jobs to foreigners is clothing, which was never a great job sector in the U.S..

In general, the basic mindset of trying to preserve the better jobs of the past is fatally flawed, because economies are in a constant state of change. The more plausible approach is to be consistently focused on making the viable jobs of today better for workers. To me it is always interesting to note that manufacturing jobs were originally terrible jobs--low-paying, dangerous, unhealthy, dehumanizing, and so forth. It took conscious effort to turn them into better jobs, and there is no inherent reason we can't do the same for other sorts of jobs as well.

And we also need to recognize that in an economy with constant churn, there needs to be a robust safety net. This is what drives the Norquislings nuts, but these two things really must go together: if you want a competitive, dynamic economy, you need a robust safety net in place. And you also need to provide basic services--decent basic education, transportation, health services, and so on--to make sure everyone has a fair chance to participate.

[SammyKhalifa]

Originally Posted by Love2Golf09

Want to help create more wealth for the middle class? Cut their property taxes. That can save a family $3k-$5k per year. Instead of pushing obamacare, allow insurance companies to compete in all states, lowering premiums. Instead of jerks in the city talking about taxing suburban workers, treat them as equal human beings, drill more and lower taxes on gasoline which will help everyone, even those that use public transportation. And finally, stop electing corrupt idiots like Mayor Luke that waste our tax money and spend hundreds of thousands on trash cans during a recession. Those things would start the turnaround for the middle class. But, I won't hold my breath. It's a lot easier to say "That person has stuff. Tell them to give me some!"

Hmm . . . maybe the landlords will pass their savings on to me and lower my rent out of the goodness of their hearts.

[UKyank]

Originally Posted by SammyKhalifa

Odd choice of words in a Pittsburgh forum.

Yea, those manufacturing unions of the 1970s & 80s did wonders for the city

[SammyKhalifa]

Originally Posted by UKyank

Yea, those manufacturing unions of the 1970s & 80s did wonders for the city

I'm not in a union or particularly pro-union, but how do your enjoy your 8-hour workday, or your unlocked emergency exits? Do you think asking for those things is just begging to have your employer hire a private army to come to your town to bust heads? Yeah, I'm sure the Carnegies and Fricks of the world would have gotten around to fixing things up eventually. The history of unions in this city goes back way before the 1970s or 80s. Like any other institution it has its good and bad, of course. I'd say on the whole they've helped the people of this city more than hurt it.

Obviously things are a lot different now. We're not dealing with the same kinds of issues (thanks to those earlier unions). I don't like everything the current unions represent or ask for; but if people can't see that a teachers union is NOT the reason for the problems today, I'm not sure what to say. It seems more likely to me that actually, the problems of today are just a convenient excuse for people doing what they wanted to do anyhow.