Kerr Elementary- can anyone comment? (Pittsburgh, Reading: section 8, best city, crime)

[4&Done]

I'm looking into a house in O'Hara who's elem. school is Kerr. Previous posters on this forum didn't speak highly of this Fox Chapel school, has it changed since?

[nuwaver88]

Originally Posted by 4&Done

I'm looking into a house in O'Hara who's elem. school is Kerr. Previous posters on this forum didn't speak highly of this Fox Chapel school, has it changed since?

Well, I went there from 1970 until 1977, so I think it may have changed since then. In the 1970s, it was only kids from the western part of O'Hara Twp. These are the subdivivisions in the area off of Kittanning Pike and Dorseyville Road. Sharpsburg kids have been going to Kerr now for several years because all of their schools closed. This was never too big of an issue, until maybe in the last ten years or less. Sharpsburg is now home to section 8 housing projects. Fewer people own their homes as it was in the past. Many people have been moving over from Lawrenceville into Sharpsburg because the rents in Larryville have been going up, whereas they are still fairly cheap in Sharpsburg. A lot of these kids have parents who are no good, to put it bluntly. Not everybody, before someone puts words in my mouth, just a good % of the them, Sharpsburg is seeing way more crime than before. These kids get to go to Kerr, then eventually Fox Chapel High School. That is one of the reasons why a lot of Fox Chapelites look down on kids from Sharpsburg. It is not fair to the others who are good kids and try hard in school. Thank slumlords and thank section 8 for bringing down a once great area in which to live.

[gg]

Originally Posted by nuwaver88

Well, I went there from 1970 until 1977, so I think it may have changed since then. In the 1970s, it was only kids from the western part of O'Hara Twp. These are the subdivivisions in the area off of Kittanning Pike and Dorseyville Road. Sharpsburg kids have been going to Kerr now for several years because all of their schools closed. This was never too big of an issue, until maybe in the last ten years or less. Sharpsburg is now home to section 8 housing projects. Fewer people own their homes as it was in the past. Many people have been moving over from Lawrenceville into Sharpsburg because the rents in Larryville have been going up, whereas they are still fairly cheap in Sharpsburg. A lot of these kids have parents who are no good, to put it bluntly. Not everybody, before someone puts words in my mouth, just a good % of the them, Sharpsburg is seeing way more crime than before. These kids get to go to Kerr, then eventually Fox Chapel High School. That is one of the reasons why a lot of Fox Chapelites look down on kids from Sharpsburg. It is not fair to the others who are good kids and try hard in school. Thank slumlords and thank section 8 for bringing down a once great area in which to live.

I own a property in Sharpsburg and it sure was a shame when they put that dumb section 8 place in. I talked to the police there and they say they spend lots of time there with all kind of complaints. I still don't consider Sharpsburg dangerous at all, but the drugs seemed to have increased with the section 8 stuff going on. Wish there was a way to get rid of that stuff, but once it is there, it is there and that is that.

[robrobrob]

This is my neck of the woods. Personally, I live on the other side and my house feeds to O'Hara. When looking for a house, I inquired about Kerr's reputation and was told by a FC Area teacher that she would not send her kids there. The weird thing is that of my extended group of friends I only know two families that live on that side and have kids going to Kerr. Just by looking at housing prices on both sides of O'Hara it is clear that the better deals are on the Kerr side. In other words, you get more bang for your buck on that side of O'Hara.

[caroline2]

Kerr is considered the worst FC elementary, but as with all things, it's relative -- it's still better than the best Pittsburgh Public Schools elementary, for example.

FCAS will allow you to tour a school, if that would help.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by caroline2

Kerr is considered the worst FC elementary, but as with all things, it's relative -- it's still better than the best Pittsburgh Public Schools elementary, for example.

FCAS will allow you to tour a school, if that would help.

You raise a good question, Caroline. Unfortunately, it's not true.

I looked at the Allegheny County elementary school rankings and 9 Pittsburgh elementary schools rank higher than Kerr. Kerr ranks 69th in the county.

[Hopes]

OP,

You should consider North Hills School District. The elementary schools have high rankings.

Ross Elementary ranks 3rd in the county.

McIntyre Elementary ranks 15th in the county.

The rest of the elementary schools in North Hills School District have decent rankings too.

Rent would be cheaper in Ross Township compared to Fox Chapel.

[scrapp]

Originally Posted by caroline2

Kerr is considered the worst FC elementary, but as with all things, it's relative -- it's still better than the best Pittsburgh Public Schools elementary, for example.

Better in what sense? I've no idea what metrics or data you are basing that statement on. Have you actually used either Kerr or a PPS school?

Let's look at some real data: PSSA scores from 2009-2010. I'll choose Colfax for PPS, since I'm familiar with it. See pages 3 and 4 of the following PDFs:

Kerr: http://paayp.emetric.net/Content/reportcards/RC10S103023912000000153.PDF (broken link)

Colfax: http://paayp.emetric.net/Content/reportcards/RC10S102027451000006022.PDF (broken link)

I'll copy over some of the highlights:

Student population taking PSSA:

Kerr: 210 white, 22 black
Colfax: 203 white, 138 black, 23 latino, 36 asian, 20 multirace

Kerr is predominantly a white school. Colfax has a much more diverse student population, including a sizeable number of disadvantaged black students. So:

• If you are relatively well off and do not want your children exposed to any disadvantaged students, you'll never choose a school like Colfax no matter how good or bad its teachers are or how well the students perform. Admit your socioeconomic and racial biases and move on.
• Teaching at a diverse school like Colfax is going to be more of a challenge than teaching at a more homogeneous school like Kerr (less achievement gap issues).
• Average test scores across the entire student body are pulled down at Colfax by the disadvantaged students who are struggling. Since Kerr doesn't have that kind of struggling student population, their overall scores will not suffer from this effect. Comparing overall Colfax scores to overall Kerr scores does not account for this difference in population. However, if you break the scores down by subgroup you can get a better handle on how much pull-down you are seeing at schools with a population like Colfax.

Let's look at MATH scores in the following order: Below Basic (BB), Basic (B), Proficient (P), Advanced (A).

Kerr ALL: 3% BB, 10% B, 25% P, 62% A
Colfax ALL: 12% BB, 11% B, 23% P, 54% A

Kerr White: 4% BB, 9% B, 25% P, 62% A
Colfax White: 3% BB, 6% B, 21% P, 71% A

Kerr Black: 0% BB, 29% B, 35% P, 35% A
Colfax Black: 29% BB, 23% B, 30% P, 18% A

You can see the pull-down effect on Colfax's overall numbers is much greater than at Kerr. But if you factor out that effect by just looking at the white subgroup, Colfax has a greater percentage of advanced math students than Kerr does (71% vs 62%).

Same kind of story looking at READING scores:

Kerr ALL: 6% BB, 14% B, 39% P, 42% A
Colfax ALL: 18% BB, 10% B, 27% P, 45% A

Kerr White: 6% BB, 14% B, 36% P, 44% A
Colfax White: 7% BB, 8% B, 25%, 61% A

Kerr Black: 6% BB, 18% B, 71% P, 6% A
Colfax Black: 38% BB, 17% B, 32% P, 13% A


edit: here's the data for Ross El Sch that Hopes mentioned is the county #3 school:
http://paayp.emetric.net/Content/reportcards/RC10S103026902000000291.PDF (broken link)

Ross: 288 white, 10 asian (no black subgroup)

Ross ALL math: 1% BB, 8% B, 23% P, 68% A
Ross ALL reading: 8% BB, 8% B, 35% P, 49% A

(the Ross white subgroup numbers are basically the same as the ALL numbers)

[gg]

Interesting information. Seems even the best city school isn't all that. I wish there was a direct way to compare private schools. I would love to see how the sports school Central Catholic fairs. I have a feeling not as good as most private schools, but it is pretty cheap to go there compared to a Shady Side

[robrobrob]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

Interesting information. Seems even the best city school isn't all that. I wish there was a direct way to compare private schools. I would love to see how the sports school Central Catholic fairs. I have a feeling not as good as most private schools, but it is pretty cheap to go there compared to a Shady Side

A few years ago I looked at the SAT scores and Fox Chapel had better scores than Central. Now, you can complain about all you want about the SAT but since colleges use them they do matter.