Criminally expensive MFE section opening (Pittsburgh, Washington: transfer, neighborhoods, tax)

[BrianTH]

Article:

Mon-Fayette Expressway connecting Uniontown, Brownsville set to open Monday - Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

The two-phase project cost $882 million for 17 miles between U.S. 119-Route 51 in Uniontown and Route 88 in Washington County.

Thinking about all the actually useful things we could have done with $882 million almost makes me want to cry.

[Craziaskowboi]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Article:

Mon-Fayette Expressway connecting Uniontown, Brownsville set to open Monday - Pittsburgh Post-Gazette



Thinking about all the actually useful things we could have done with $882 million almost makes me want to cry.

That's the Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission's jurisdiction, not PennDOT's. The Turnpike Commission deals solely with toll roads, not with public transit.

[Love2Golf09]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Thinking about all the actually useful things we could have done with $882 million almost makes me want to cry.

It's not any worse than your ideas for a gondola. I'm actually kind of surprised you'd be against this. You always propose bizarre public projects and give absolutely no regard to spending someone else's money. You'd make a good democrat politician. Perhaps you're just upset that it's extremely expensive, paid for with your tax dollars, and you will probably get zero use out of it? Welcome to the real world.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Gnutella

That's the Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission's jurisdiction, not PennDOT's. The Turnpike Commission deals solely with toll roads, not with public transit.

But the project has gotten a ton of funding from the state and feds over time, and I believe PennDOT has done some segments (not sure about this one). Of course there is no guarantee that funding could have simply been transferred to other, far more worthy, transportation projects in the region, but I think at least much of the state money could have been (in fact, I believe some of the state money just came straight from fuel tax revenues).

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Love2Golf09

It's not any worse than your ideas for a gondola. I'm actually kind of surprised you'd be against this.

I'm in favor of transportation projects that would serve important and unmet transportation needs, and encourage more efficient use of land and energy, improve public health and safety, and otherwise provide a large return in cognizable net benefits given the amount invested.

But I'm just crazy like that.

Oh, and incidentally, that used to be a bipartisan notion. It is really a shame transportation policy got caught up in the sorts of irrational Culture War nonsense you are faithfully representing for us.

[I_Like_Spam]

The Monongahela Valley and Fayette County have been in a long term economic downspin, and this idea is to help bring them back by providing more connectivity betweeen these distressed locales and the greater world.

"misguided", perhaps, but not criminal in the least. Maybe the state could have used the same funds to provide other growth strategies down there, but they made their decision so we'll see how it works out.

The East Street Expressway project, I-279, was downplayed when that was going up in the 80's and early 90's. But the growth in the Wexford, Cranberry and Mars areas since that was built showed the wisdom of that project.

I don't know what will come down in the Mon Valley, we'll see what happens here.

[UKyank]

Too bad they're probably not going to ever completely finish the MFE into Pgh as its a nice road (and actually up to modern standards unlike most highways here) to drive & quite convenient to get to the areas it serves once you finally get to the road.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by I_Like_Spam

"misguided", perhaps, but not criminal in the least.

You can be subject to criminal penalties for reckless or negligent behavior.

Of course I understand the need to help redevelop the existing communities Mon Valley, but this project is REALLY "misguided" in that sense, and instead for that purpose you would want to do very different sorts of transportation projects.

Add in the truly enormous expense, and I think it is more than fair to say the responsible officials over time have been reckless, or at least highly negligent, with the public's money.

but they made their decision so we'll see how it works out.

I agree there is nothing to be done about it now, but the utilization on the prior phases has been very low, and in general there really is no reasonable expectation that this overall route will end up having enough utilization to justify the MFE's expense.

But the growth in the Wexford, Cranberry and Mars areas since that was built showed the wisdom of that project.

I don't think encouraging greenfield development as existing communities are languishing is necessarily a "wise" outcome. And of course the MFE lacks many of the claimed virtues of I-279, most notably that it ends on the periphery of the core area. And no, it would not be a good idea to spend billions more and destroy a bunch of existing communities to blast it into the core area.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by UKyank

Too bad they're probably not going to ever completely finish the MFE into Pgh

I think it is very likely completing the MFE would have net negative value when you added up all the costs and benefits. So I don't think it is too bad at all that is not going to happen.

What is too bad is how many resources we have already dumped into this boondoggle. But there is no sense compounding that error.

[GregHenry]

Pittsburgh has crappy Interstate coverage. This expressway should be extended from Jefferson Hills to 279 Downtown.

Get the dynamite ready.

Better yet, split it at Jefferson Hills, and have one fork run to 279 and the other to the junction of 376 and 76.