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Old 08-04-2010, 03:41 PM
 
Location: St. Joseph Area
6,233 posts, read 9,482,428 times
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Obama is a "socialist" because he dares to believe that government (as a concept) isn't an inherent evil.
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Old 08-04-2010, 03:50 PM
 
5,915 posts, read 4,813,813 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcopolo View Post
It sure ain't capitalism to take from investors and give to the benefit of employees.
That's exactly what that was. The UAW had run the company into the ground and the government rewarded them with a bail out.
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Old 08-04-2010, 03:53 PM
 
35,016 posts, read 39,159,646 times
Reputation: 6195
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Originally Posted by Kirdik View Post
That's exactly what that was. The UAW had run the company into the ground and the government rewarded them with a bail out.
I wonder why management signed off on those contracts

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29405227/

http://www.just-auto.com/news/genera...f_id96682.aspx

I dont see mention of unions in those articles.
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Old 08-04-2010, 04:13 PM
 
5,915 posts, read 4,813,813 times
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Originally Posted by delusianne View Post
GM is owned by the US Treasury, the UAW union, the CDIC, and some bond holders. That's what I know.
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Old 08-04-2010, 04:14 PM
 
Location: Columbus
4,877 posts, read 4,508,466 times
Reputation: 1450
Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost View Post

I'm willing to bet that Hannity and Savage are smart enough to realize what socialism is, but they won't tell, because it works in their favor.
Savage is coming out with a book this September explaining why he thinks the current Administration is Marxist/Socialist.

Guess you are wrong.
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Old 08-04-2010, 04:17 PM
 
35,016 posts, read 39,159,646 times
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Originally Posted by Kirdik View Post
GM is owned by the US Treasury, the UAW union, the CDIC, and some bond holders. That's what I know.
61% of it is owned by the fed govt, for the time being. GM intends to file for an IPO next year. (I used to know more about the union and the bondholders' ownership but have forgotten.)

None of the GM Board of Directors is a Washington bureaucrat, btw

In this article that tries very hard (at least above the fold, the part most of its readers get as far as) to be negative, "GM officials said the government has had almost nothing at all to do with the company’s rapid return to profitability. According to one GM official, who spoke to CNSNews.com on background, the government has been a “silent investor,” and GM’s senior leadership does not seek “approval or permission” from the government before making business decisions.

“They haven’t done anything, in the sense of telling us how to run our business,” the GM official told CNSNews.com. “The fact is that a new team has come in, and this is what they were handed. We don’t want to be under this guise of ‘Government Motors’ or the 61 percent equity stake of the government a moment longer then we have to.”

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/70155 (broken link)
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Old 08-04-2010, 04:34 PM
 
507 posts, read 879,018 times
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Originally Posted by marcopolo View Post
In a non-Obama-driven bankruptcy, every union contract would have been void, period. Pension benefits would have fallen to the PBGC, at lower levels (no full pension for 50 year-olds, for example). The VEBA would have ranked equally with other creditors, in the same line. New owners would have rehired for all positions at $15 an hour/no union.

BILLIONS of dollars were given to the UAW interests over and above what the law required, and normal custom--and some of this came out of the pockets of bondholders and other creditors. The "new" GM is still burdened by high cost workers in the upper tier, and still has the old pension plan around its neck like a millstone.

It sure ain't capitalism to take from investors and give to the benefit of employees.

True, capitalism is taking from the worker and giving to the rich.

FYI, people who work on the street,among themselves, refer to "investors" as donors.
Been there,heard that.
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Old 08-04-2010, 04:37 PM
 
507 posts, read 879,018 times
Reputation: 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirdik View Post
That's exactly what that was. The UAW had run the company into the ground and the government rewarded them with a bail out.
UAW my butt, GM is regarded worldwide as being the worst managed large corp. in history.
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Old 08-04-2010, 08:16 PM
 
Location: it depends
6,369 posts, read 6,410,222 times
Reputation: 6388
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCur View Post
True, capitalism is taking from the worker and giving to the rich.

FYI, people who work on the street,among themselves, refer to "investors" as donors.
Been there,heard that.
Your comment confuses me. Investors are the people who provide the money to build the factories, offices, and stores that we work in. They provide the equipment and the tools. Capital investment is the key to worker productivity, which improves incomes. FedEx employees would not be worth much if all they had was handcarts and wagons--the planes and trucks and terminals are key.

No worker in America is chained to his or her job. One can quit any day, any time, and go somewhere else--or try to provide enough value to others to make it in business on their own. Capitalism provides more than 100 million jobs, trillions in payroll, to Americans.
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Old 08-05-2010, 07:59 AM
 
507 posts, read 879,018 times
Reputation: 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcopolo View Post
Your comment confuses me. Investors are the people who provide the money to build the factories, offices, and stores that we work in. They provide the equipment and the tools. Capital investment is the key to worker productivity, which improves incomes. FedEx employees would not be worth much if all they had was handcarts and wagons--the planes and trucks and terminals are key.

No worker in America is chained to his or her job. One can quit any day, any time, and go somewhere else--or try to provide enough value to others to make it in business on their own. Capitalism provides more than 100 million jobs, trillions in payroll, to Americans.

Yes, I see reality does confuse you.
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