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First you deny the OBVIOUS symbology, and then, when double talk fails, you deny the significance.
Give it up ... and admit this ALLEGED "Religion" is what it is ... and what it has ALWAYS been ... a system of conquest and dominance from it's early infancy of the 7th century until the 11th century when the conquest was forcibly repelled.
It's goals have not changed, though it's tactics have. The Islamics do not possess the military might to invade and conquer, so they infiltrate and expand by way of deception and false protestations of tolerance and peace.
The only symbology that is obvious is that they named their mosque after a Catholic Cathedral. By the way it was more than just a mosque in the 11 the century housing on of the greatest libraries of the time and Cordoba was one of the greatest cultural cities of the time. Now why do you suppose they named a mosque after a cathedral??
I think it's a bit myopic to belittle someone else's knowledge, while at the same time ignoring the larger history of a place and focusing on a brief period to support your argument. The larger history of Cordoba is every bit as applicable to the rationale behind choosing this name, though it's understandable why some people might choose to IGNORE that larger history.
Beyond the 450 years of Muslim conquest and domination that was being ignored .... what relevant history applicable to the period and THIS conversation did I leave out?
Apparently, you don't wish to give a HINT to that larger history?
No, actually the Vandals were the East Germanic tribe that conquered and settled Hispania and parts of North Africa a few hundred years earlier. The name Al-Andalus or Andalusia has been theorized as refering to the Berber pronounciation of Vandal.
It doesn't refer to our modern usage of the word vandal to describe hooligans or destruction of property.
No ... you make such definitive statements without reference to back it up ...
here's a reference for you:
Etymology of al-Andalus
The etymology of the word "al-Andalus" is disputed. Furthermore, the extent of Iberian territory encompassed by the name changed over the centuries. As a designation for Iberia or its southern portion, the name is first attested by inscriptions on coins minted by the new Muslim government in Iberia circa 715 (the uncertainty in the year is due to the fact that the coins were bilingual in Latin and Arabic and the two inscriptions differ as to the year of minting).
At least three specific etymologies have been proposed in Western scholarship, all presuming that the name arose after the Roman period in the Iberian Peninsula's history. Their originators or defenders have been historians. Recently, linguistics expertise has been brought to bear on the issue. Arguments from toponymy (the study of place names), history, and language structure demonstrate the lack of substance in all preceding proposals, and evidence has been presented that the name predates the Roman occupation rather than postdates it.
A major objection to all earlier proposals is that the very name Andaluz (the equivalent of Andalus in Spanish spelling) exists in several places in mountainous areas of Castile. Furthermore, the fragment and- is common in Spanish place names, and the fragment -luz also occurs several times across Spain.
Older proposals
The name "Andalusia" or "Vandalusia" was traditionally believed to be derived from "Vandal" (the Germanic tribe that colonized parts of Iberia from 407 to 429). However, there is no historical reference to support this.
Not that I find Wikipedia the all knowing source of knowledge and truth, it is just an attempt to provide some contextual source other than personal OPINION and a lack of trying.
There are other sources which also support the fact .... Muslim texts.
I know you're not overly critical when picking your source material, but can you provide a cite (beyond NY Post) for the alleged September 11th opening date? Preferably something coming from, y'know, representatives for the Park51 project.
Why ? It's clear any source that disagrees with your opinion will be summarily dismissed.
Furthermore, the September 11 date is ancillary to the main point of building the Mosque at that location, and naming the Mosque Cordoba House.
So I don't suppose even a confession would be sufficient to stimulate a flicker of common sense.
The only symbology that is obvious is that they named their mosque after a Catholic Cathedral. By the way it was more than just a mosque in the 11 the century housing on of the greatest libraries of the time and Cordoba was one of the greatest cultural cities of the time. Now why do you suppose they named a mosque after a cathedral??
I already explained that clearly enough for a 3rd grader to understand.
I'm not sure I can do better a second time ... but I'll try.
BECAUSE THAT CHURCH WAS CONVERTED TO A MOSQUE/PALACE COMPLEX BY THE CONQUERING MUSLIMS AT CORDOBA
Beyond the 450 years of Muslim conquest and domination that was being ignored .... what relevant history applicable to the period and THIS conversation did I leave out?
Apparently, you don't wish to give a HINT to that larger history?
400 years is a piece of history, what about the years before, and, more importantly, the years after? What about the cultural achievements of Cordoba? The libraries, the museums, the architecture, the welding together of cultures? What about the mosque becoming a great cathedral? In your myopic view, you are ignoring a thousand years of history and even ignoring other aspects of that 400 years. It's like focusing on only the history of England when the Plantagenets ruled, and ignoring every other royal house, every other aspect of their society and culture. Then, if someone brings up the Tudors or the Windsors or any of the other periods in English history, trying to slam them because it's "irrelevant". It's irrelevant to you, perhaps, because you don't want to address any other perspective but your own. But in terms of the people choosing the Cordoba name, you are arguing that their mindset and yours are exactly the same, with no knowledge of what their mindset was, and ignoring not only what other posters are suggesting, but also ignoring what they themselves have said were their reasons for choosing the name "Cordoba".
No ... you make such definitive statements without reference to back it up ...
here's a reference for you:
Etymology of al-Andalus
The etymology of the word "al-Andalus" is disputed. Furthermore, the extent of Iberian territory encompassed by the name changed over the centuries. As a designation for Iberia or its southern portion, the name is first attested by inscriptions on coins minted by the new Muslim government in Iberia circa 715 (the uncertainty in the year is due to the fact that the coins were bilingual in Latin and Arabic and the two inscriptions differ as to the year of minting).
At least three specific etymologies have been proposed in Western scholarship, all presuming that the name arose after the Roman period in the Iberian Peninsula's history. Their originators or defenders have been historians. Recently, linguistics expertise has been brought to bear on the issue. Arguments from toponymy (the study of place names), history, and language structure demonstrate the lack of substance in all preceding proposals, and evidence has been presented that the name predates the Roman occupation rather than postdates it.
I didn't make a definitive statement, I simply said that was one of the theories regarding the orgin of the name Al-Anadalus. Whatever the origin is you've done nothing to prove your statment that:
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas
The Muslims named the region for which they conquered, "Al-Andalus" or in english ... "Land of the Vandals". In modern terms, this would be synonymous with the "land of terrorists". And I am SURE these high minded Muslim conquerers would have been very respectful of those they considered vandals or terrorists ....... yes indeedy .... I'm sure the would have .... NOT..
You made the damn claim that they named Al-Andalus---"Land of Vandals", not I. All I did was point out the fact that Vandals would've refered to the tribe and not the modern usage of the term. You've done absolutely fricking nothing prove your assertion that this would be synoymous with "land of terrorists." You post a reference that states that there is a different theory that the name pre-dates the Roman period...which contradicts that the Muslims even named the region at all.
Why ? It's clear any source that disagrees with your opinion will be summarily dismissed.
Furthermore, the September 11 date is ancillary to the main point of building the Mosque at that location, and naming the Mosque Cordoba House.
So I don't suppose even a confession would be sufficient to stimulate a flicker of common sense.
Sure sounds like you don't have a cite.
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