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I'm a Fundamentalist Christian who voted for Obama and prayed he would win. I guess that proves that God does answer prayers. Why don't you open your heart to Him instead of hating Him?
I will take a guess. Because it's fun to ridicule others based upon their religious beliefs, race etc. and if you feel that your reasons for doing so are entirely correct then you don't even realize you are a bigot. So you get to feel superior without any nagging guilt.
You may see where I'm going, but I have no idea where your going...
And or why your choosing to personalize this...
respond to the question...don't take jabs at me...for if I start taking jabs at you, you won't like it...
Answer the question...
Why did Obama win, even though so many Christains prayed for him not to..
1. God choose to ignore their prayers...and if so why??
2. God doesnt exist...therefore prayer is meaningless??
3. God could careless about the affairs of man??
Which one??
Jesus is a liberal. Think about it. Always talking about peace and love, wearing sandals, the long hair and beard and such..... Total hippie, and everyone knows that most hippies are liberals.
I'm not sure if this belongs here, or in the religious section...
But this is an issue I've never had explained to me...
I just remember before the election...it seemed every and all people of religious persuation...(political religious) prayed that Obama wouldn't win...
And he ended up winning anyhow...
Why?
1. God doesn't exist, and therefore prayers are meaningless...?
2. Those sending up prayers were sending up 'sour' prayers which weren't motivated out of love, in which god did not respond..?
3. God let's man handle their own affairs..?
Everyone thinks God is on their side, from political parties to sporting fans, to nations to induvisuals...
Why do we, as humans, splice God up like a pie?
Who's side is God really on?
What if it's Gods will, that Obama wins again...how will those who politicize christanity react??
Does God even care about the affairs of man??
God sometimes used evil kings to judge Israel in the Old Testament. Heck, the nation of Israel was defeated and carried off into captivity by Babylon. I'm sure there were some devout Jews praying for God's deliverance at the time.
Bottom line is, obama got elected because God wanted it.
Again, your responding to me, and not the question...
1. Does God exist..
2. Is prayer effective?
3. Why would God ignore the prayers of millions, who prayed, requested to God, that Obama wouldn't win??
Explain...
1. The question of God's existence is a matter of faith. It can't be proven one way or the other.
2. If you believe that God is omnipotent and omniscient, then asking for something that is contrary to his plan for the universe won't be effective. Some people believe that God wants believers to offer prayer as way of demonstrating their faith and gratitude for what he has done for them, and as way of asking God to use his power to make sure that their desires are in alignment with his plan.
3. If you believe that God is all powerful, all knowing, eternal, and supremely righteous, then what's the point of asking "why" there was a certain outcome to any event? Isn't obvious that the Christians who were fervently praying that Obama wouldn't win were praying for the wrong thing?
If you're trying to make the point that God doesn't exist or is somehow against Christians, you are going about it the wrong way. Christians shouldn't be praying that God is on their side, they should be praying that they are on God's side.
You could ask the same types of questions about muslims who have been praying for death to America for the last 30 years but to no avail.
1. The question of God's existence is a matter of faith. It can't be proven one way or the other.
Not true. Google the cosmological argument.
Bottom line is that a creator exists because the universe exists. It's basic causality. Most scientists would agree with the premise.
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2. If you believe that God is omnipotent and omniscient, then asking for something that is contrary to his plan for the universe won't be effective. Some people believe that God wants believers to offer prayer as way of demonstrating their faith and gratitude for what he has done for them, and as way of asking God to use his power to make sure that their desires are in alignment with his plan.
And?
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3. If you believe that God is all powerful, all knowing, eternal, and supremely righteous, then what's the point of asking "why" there was a certain outcome to any event? Isn't obvious that the Christians who were fervently praying that Obama wouldn't win were praying for the wrong thing?
Sometimes God said in the Bible he would do something unless the people reacted a certain way. They did, he relented.
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If you're trying to make the point that God doesn't exist or is somehow against Christians, you are going about it the wrong way. Christians shouldn't be praying that God is on their side, they should be praying that they are on God's side.
You could say that.
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You could ask the same types of questions about muslims who have been praying for death to America for the last 30 years but to no avail.
Except that islam is a false religion from the pit of hell.
Politics is primarily concerned with the events of this world, getting people elected who promise to look after your interests...
Religion deals more with eternal issues...issues that effect your standing with God, a God or dieties that you will deal with when you die...
Ok, one sec...
I must stop myself...this question is odd for me...because seperating politics and religion comes so easy for me...I'm not sure how to relay that to someone, or people, who are wired so differently...
To me, politics is trusting in man...
Religion is trusting in God or a diety...
To me, when you stop trusting in yourself, or that diety, then you start to rely more on man to solve your problems or issues...
And as such, get pulled into the emotions of man...the cat fights...ect ect...
Which causes you to break from the principles of God...ect ect...
And get pulled into the 'mud'...
Sorry I had to break it down into bulliet points like that...
I'll come back later and further explain if you wish...but right now I'm kinda in a job related working enviornment and so my concentration is fragmented...let's continue this conversation in the future in a positive learning manner...
I would love to continue utilizing a positive learning manner. The great thinkers of our history (& present) did just that.
If religion is a person's belief, their principles in which they conduct themselves, the reflection of that, those principles will be seen in the person's politics.
How can one separate the essence of man (religion) from the politics on which the man expresses?
The only way I know of would be to say, the man's principles do not reflect in his politics. However, how can that be made into a true absolute statement, if we are separating religion and politics? I just don't think that can be done. Plato: The Republic 5-10
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In order to explain the distinction between justice and injustice more fully, Plato devoted much of the remainder of The Republic to a detailed discussion of five different kinds of government (and, by analogy, five different kinds of person), ranked in order from best to worst:
Last edited by Ellis Bell; 10-06-2010 at 12:02 PM..
Reason: I wanted to put the quote in
I will take a guess. Because it's fun to ridicule others based upon their religious beliefs, race etc. and if you feel that your reasons for doing so are entirely correct then you don't even realize you are a bigot. So you get to feel superior without any nagging guilt.
That's probably about right for most irreligious people...that's certainly the sense I get from them.
If religion is a person's belief, their principles in which they conduct themselves, the reflection of that, those principles will be seen in the person's politics.
'Conduct themselves'....
And how do people usually 'conduct' themselves in regards to relating to one another in as far as politics is concerned??
What kind of spirit do you see coming forth from man in and around political discusions?
Is it a spirit of unity and love? or one of ridicule, divisivness and hostility?
What kind of spirit does politics tend to bring out of man? And for the good or benefit of whom?
'Conduct' is a good word though...for how people conduct themselves in regards to an issue, holds many keys...
This thread shows that libs really are clueless about Jesus. Do they (libs) really think that people weren't praying for Obama too? God doesn't answer all prayers right away. Millions of people prayed that the Yankees would lose the World series last year but they still won. There's proof that Jesus isn't real
God doesn't answer all prayers right away??
And why not? As a reformed Christian, does it ever occur to you that the prayers, or the spirit they were offered up in, weren't of God to begin with?? Just asking...
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Originally Posted by Bulldawg82
Because sometimes the answer is "NO".
And what does 'NO' mean? How should a believer interpit 'NO'??
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Originally Posted by BergenCountyJohnny
I'm a Fundamentalist Christian who voted for Obama and prayed he would win. I guess that proves that God does answer prayers. Why don't you open your heart to Him instead of hating Him?
You think having an open honest discusion in the affairs of man and God, represents 'hate'??
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Originally Posted by Mathguy
They weren't ignored by god....he's just smarter than them and realizes that there is pretty much no difference politically between Obama and McCain.
Sorry I had to point out your assumption fallacies...I know you are just trying to take some shots here and haven't thought things through very well.
Hi, try not judging or interpiting others motives based on your own internal ones...
I know other threads often create a climate of conflict and 'shot taking'...but please don't allow that to make you cynical to the possibility that some people out here are still geniune in their need to learn and understand....and we, you, I, do that by asking questions and examining ourselves...
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