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When you raise the wage, prices go up. So you've basically done nothing but devalue a dollar.
Well, not compleatly. If you were to raise minimum wage to $60K per year you would just about doble the cost of those things done by the bottom 1/2 of the income distribution. This means that the cost of everything would go up by 50%. The cost of those things done by the top 1/2 of the income distribution would remain the same. So the poor would see a reduction in the cost of health care by about 50% or so. Also a reduction in the cost of higher education as well. The top 1/2 would see higher prices and their cost of living would go up.
The up side to this and why I am all for it is that the prices of houses would tend to go up as well. When the housing bubble started to pop $7T went away just like that. The long term economic cuncequences for this are really devistating. We need that $7T back. Upping minimum wage is the only tool that I see to raise demand for houses. $60k per year. At that level you could do away with food stamps and a bunch of other government hand outs.
Well, not compleatly. If you were to raise minimum wage to $60K per year you would just about doble the cost of those things done by the bottom 1/2 of the income distribution. This means that the cost of everything would go up by 50%. The cost of those things done by the top 1/2 of the income distribution would remain the same. So the poor would see a reduction in the cost of health care by about 50% or so. Also a reduction in the cost of higher education as well. The top 1/2 would see higher prices and their cost of living would go up.
The up side to this and why I am all for it is that the prices of houses would tend to go up as well. When the housing bubble started to pop $7T went away just like that. The long term economic cuncequences for this are really devistating. We need that $7T back. Upping minimum wage is the only tool that I see to raise demand for houses. $60k per year. At that level you could do away with food stamps and a bunch of other government hand outs.
This thread got a little off track earlier and folks started about how CEO pay hurts the middle class. Some people stated that limiting CEO pay could help those at the lower end of the company. You know the theory, spread the money around.
Let's take a look at that and see if they are correct. There was a post that said the Wal-Mart CEO made 19 million a year. To keep the math simpler lets say he makes 20 million.
Now we limit his wage to something more fair. Let's reduce his pay to 5 million a year. That frees up 15 million for other Wal-Mart employees. Sounds like a lot and we get to teach that greedy CEO in Arkansas a lesson at the same time. WooHoo. Who does he think he is?
Wal-Mart has 1.5 million employees. That means each employee gets 10 dollars a year extra. Gee, thanks.
Let us assume that 500,000 of those Wal-Mart employess are already making 50,000 or more per year and so we elminate them from our raise. That leaves 1 million employees. And lets go ahead and fire the CEO and not replace him. So now we have 20 million to divide among 1 million lower level employees. They get 20 bucks extra a person. Assuming they get paid every 2 weeks they an extra 77 cents per paycheck.
77 cents every two weeks will really help. LOLs. Oh well, at least that CEO learned his lesson.
It's exactly as I stated before. CEOs are not overpaid. A company cannot dump too much of one resource (this case money) in one area (this case CEO salary) and stay in business for long.
Just another example of the free market fixing "problems".
But we must have the government come in a fix pay for people? LOLs. No thanks.
Upping minimum wage is the only tool that I see to raise demand for houses. $60k per year. At that level you could do away with food stamps and a bunch of other government hand outs.
This would do nothing more than make our money completely useless. It wouldn't even be worth the paper it is printed on.
Money is a resource like anything else. The more of it out there floating around the less valuable it becomes.
This is why we won't do anything about illegal immigration. The feds have pumped so much money into the economy we must have more people to dilute the supply. And there aren't enough people being born here by legal citizens.
It's also why we should be grateful businesses are sitting on money instead of spending. Keeping money out of circulation helps to keep prices down. If we did what the government told us and spent money to "stimulate" the economy we would see suffocating inflation.
Just one more example of the capitalist solving government made problems.
This would do nothing more than make our money completely useless. It wouldn't even be worth the paper it is printed on.
Our money is completely worthless we just haven’t figured it out yet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioIstheBest
Money is a resource like anything else. The more of it out there floating around the less valuable it becomes.
If you look at the time under the curve for interest rates the prime has more area under the curve now than blew the 2000’s Real estate bubble. That does not count QE 1.0 and QE 2.0 and the talked about QE 3.0. The fed is trying as hard as it can to push as much money out there as it can in order to stimulate the economy. And it is failing.
It is like trying to push on a car on ice. Your feet just keep slipping, no traction. Higher minimum wage will give the feds printing press more traction as it will give more people an unleveraged income base to lever up and spend money now. Also the higher prices that come with higher wages will give people an incentive to spend money now. (You want to spend the money before it loses its value.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioIstheBest
This is why we won't do anything about illegal immigration. The feds have pumped so much money into the economy we must have more people to dilute the supply. And there aren't enough people being born here by legal citizens.
Well. I really don’t think so but I don’t have anything right now to show you why.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioIstheBest
It's also why we should be grateful businesses are sitting on money instead of spending. Keeping money out of circulation helps to keep prices down. If we did what the government told us and spent money to "stimulate" the economy we would see suffocating inflation.
We have too much debt and not enough income. The last graph that I saw (a bit old) was that we were at 350%+ of GDP for total debt. At the peak in the great depression we reached about 290% depending on the source. “Suffocating inflation” would effectively reduce the debt burden that we have. The debt is holding the economy back until it comes down we won’t have strong economic growth. Businesses are sitting on their money instead of spending it as a cash cushion against the debts that they are carrying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioIstheBest
Just one more example of the capitalist solving government made problems. file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/gp194120/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.gif (broken link)
The choice is deflation or inflation. I’ll take inflation. I’m not down for hyperinflation but inflation tends to bring with it employment. I should say inflation driven by printing money tends to bring with it full employment.
This thread got a little off track earlier and folks started about how CEO pay hurts the middle class. Some people stated that limiting CEO pay could help those at the lower end of the company. You know the theory, spread the money around.
Why not tie the minimum wage to the top compensated CEOs. Say take the top 20 and average their income and set minimum wage as 1/100th of that amount. Or 1/50th of that amount. That will keep the bottom in touch with the top. And effectively adjust the minimum wage for inflation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioIstheBest
Let's take a look at that and see if they are correct. …
Just another example of the free market fixing "problems".
But we must have the government come in a fix pay for people? LOLs. No thanks.
I read a book Dangerous Liaisons published in the 1780’s I think it was Before the French revolution at any rate. The book contained a seen one person in the book went to do a good dead. There was a family that was going to get kicked out onto the street for lack of back rent. The amount was something like $0.50. When we paid the back rent he felt so good and they were so grateful that he gave them $15. That was the ratio in approximate amounts. The rich player had multiple years worth of poor people’s income in his pocket as walking around money to spend discretionarily. The anger over that pay distribution drove the French Revolution. We have the same pay distribution now. Keeping the bottom in touch with the top is good for business.
Why not tie the minimum wage to the top compensated CEOs. Say take the top 20 and average their income and set minimum wage as 1/100th of that amount. Or 1/50th of that amount. That will keep the bottom in touch with the top. And effectively adjust the minimum wage for inflation.
I read a book Dangerous Liaisons published in the 1780’s I think it was Before the French revolution at any rate. The book contained a seen one person in the book went to do a good dead. There was a family that was going to get kicked out onto the street for lack of back rent. The amount was something like $0.50. When we paid the back rent he felt so good and they were so grateful that he gave them $15. That was the ratio in approximate amounts. The rich player had multiple years worth of poor people’s income in his pocket as walking around money to spend discretionarily. The anger over that pay distribution drove the French Revolution. We have the same pay distribution now. Keeping the bottom in touch with the top is good for business.
1. i will never be a CEO.
2. I will never have 25K in the bank, let alone a million.
3. never will my screwing up at my job cost 2000 plus employees to no longer be employed, it will cost me MY job only.
Why not tie the minimum wage to the top compensated CEOs. Say take the top 20 and average their income and set minimum wage as 1/100th of that amount. Or 1/50th of that amount. That will keep the bottom in touch with the top. And effectively adjust the minimum wage for inflation.
Becuase a person's pay is not relative to what someone else does.
If I work as an engineer should my pay be based on what the HR person makes or should it based on what I do?
All the class envy crap is nonsense.
If income gap matters then please tell me how Bill Gates making billions affects my life? Or yours? It doesn't.
What the heck does upping the minimum wage have with being able to buy a house?
Nothing, it is just more double talk by those trying use fuzzy math to excuse not raising minimum wage. They admit very few people are actually getting minimum wage but then try and say the price of everythin will skyrocket, jobs will be lost, companies will fail because of a small raise for a few people. It is always been interestig that the right always fights minimum wage increases even if it has a been a decade since they were lasy increased, heck most of them want to end it all together, talk about being bought by big business. You can try and discuss the issue with them, just understand that they will just keep going over the same things already expalined to them until you come to the realization that they are not actually discussing anything. Good thing is no matter how much they whine on and on about it minimum wages will increase from time to time anyway.
Casper
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