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Actually if they could do bankruptcy then you would be making a massive gift to them from the taxpayer.
Not in the case of private loans. Those are not taxpayer-backed.
The lack of bankruptcy protections created the bubble in the first place. Lenders have no incentive to properly assess lending risk, since the debt cannot be discharged. Colleges, in turn, jack up prices to startling levels.
And if you can pay off the cost of a modern degree by working the graveyard shift, your salary is probably high enough to where you don't need college, and you'd be better-served by making your $80,000/year on your graveyard shift job, at least for a while (average annual tuition + taxes + living expenses).
As I keep pointing out (and some keep ignoring), the problem is the aggregate effect of the student loan bubble. You have to think in terms of the entire economy, not an individual idiot kid who takes on an unwise amount of debt.
Some people seem either incapable of doing so, or maybe just unwilling. That lack of systematic, economy-wide thinking is one of the causes of the other recent bubbles.
Well, before you go patting yourself on the back too much (and the same goes for me), I worked my way through college but then companies paid for tuition reimbursement. .
Tuition reimbursement through your employer is totally different than getting a loan and defaulting on it, and I know you know this.
One party willingly does this for whatever their reason, having smarter employees, and as a perk showing they appreciate their employees.
The other party is taxpayers paying for someone who made a bad decision, likely due to lack of research, and the taxpayers don't really get anything out of it.
Maybe it sounds cruel, but I don't make enough money to live a lavish life, so I don't want my money going elsewhere to people that were foolish. When I have enough money to live comfortably, then I don't care what my taxes pay for.
Don't knock women's studies, I almost took a class in it. And I'm sure its not about basket weaving, but I couldn't pick up on any sarcasm there. And while I think some colleges may inflate numbers, like what pay to be expected upon graduation, I never really knew of anyone that said women's studies for example, was a solid field.
This just isn't rocket science. It has to do with financial decisions that these students should be able to figure out and work out. These are supposed to be educated and smart individuals, and there is no reason they can't figure this out and need their asses wiped. These people are the same types that got screwed by the housing burst I bet. What happened to looking at where you are, what you can afford, where you expect to be, and then subtract funds from that for a rainy day. Well if everyone planned for a rainy day, there wouldn't be so many defaulting on their college debt because they can't find jobs now, and there wouldn't be so many foreclosures
These 18 (or 22 or 24) year old people are not the people who were wiped out in the housing debacle. BTW, I also took ONE women's studies class, but I graduated in 1984 and knew that major was a waste of time. And, yes, it was a major.
Obviously, if we've got a thread going about student loan debt and suicide, these students have NOT been able to figure things out and work them out. They just may need their asses wiped, and I mean no disrespect. Part of the problem would be their Baby Boomer parents who spoiled them rotten telling them they could be the next rock star and indulging their every whim (and I have a brother who has done just this). He had the nerve to diss my MBA from the top 30 in the country while his own kid goes to a fourth rate state school in obscure flyover country and barely passes. But I digress.
At any rate, these people who are struggling with student loans are not the foreclosures on your street.
Part of the problem would be their Baby Boomer parents who spoiled them rotten telling them they could be the next rock star and indulging their every whim
That may be a few, but they often have well-heeled parents who can bail them out.
The ones I feel worse for are kids who may have grown up in lower-income households, but whose parent(s) kept pounding away at the "importance of education," and how going to college is a "big accomplishment," and to go get that education at all costs, even if it takes loans and some sacrifice.
Then the bottom of the job market fell out right as they graduated, stranding them with an unpayable level of debt that grows by the day due to usurious "fees," and which cannot be reduced or vacated via the bankruptcy process.
And they don't have parents or relatives who can step in with a "personal bailout," either.
In better economic times, they'd have repaid their loans over the years, been part of the housing market and the consumer economy, and would have been starting families.
Now, those goals are demolished. Economically, the system sucks money away from the local economy, and into the hands of student loan companies.
That's why I keep telling people to look at the nature of the entire system, and the systemic effects. Yelling at individual kids for being stupid does nothing to address the economic effects of their aggregate debt.
That may be a few, but they often have well-heeled parents who can bail them out.
The ones I feel worse for are kids who may have grown up in lower-income households, but whose parent(s) kept pounding away at the "importance of education," and how going to college is a "big accomplishment," and to go get that education at all costs, even if it takes loans and some sacrifice.
Then the bottom of the job market fell out right as they graduated, stranding them with an unpayable level of debt that grows by the day due to usurious "fees," and which cannot be reduced or vacated via the bankruptcy process.
And they don't have parents or relatives who can step in with a "personal bailout," either.
In better economic times, they'd have repaid their loans over the years, been part of the housing market and the consumer economy, and would have been starting families.
Now, those goals are demolished. Economically, the system sucks money away from the local economy, and into the hands of student loan companies.
That's why I keep telling people to look at the nature of the entire system, and the systemic effects. Yelling at individual kids for being stupid does nothing to address the economic effects of their aggregate debt.
Which is precisely why I lay the responsibility at the doors of the institutions of higher learning for continuing their propaganda that you can pursue a fluff major and succeed. I put the blame on them and they ought to know better and shame on them. Unfortunately, you have a lot of tenured staff who want to keep teaching art history and a lot of guidance counselors who are going to push this as a marketable major and that is what needs to be dealt with. I can't fault the young and naive for falling for this garbage. But I can fault the adults who perpetuate it. Perhaps I was too harsh to use the word stupid with respect to the youths. At any rate, it's a scam and it has to stop.
Tuition reimbursement through your employer is totally different than getting a loan and defaulting on it, and I know you know this.
One party willingly does this for whatever their reason, having smarter employees, and as a perk showing they appreciate their employees.
The other party is taxpayers paying for someone who made a bad decision, likely due to lack of research, and the taxpayers don't really get anything out of it.
Maybe it sounds cruel, but I don't make enough money to live a lavish life, so I don't want my money going elsewhere to people that were foolish. When I have enough money to live comfortably, then I don't care what my taxes pay for.
Well, you don't need to worry about this, as people are still being held accountable for student loan debt. As to tuition reimbursement, why wouldn't anyone seek out an employer that offers this? It's a win-win for both. There are still companies out there that offer this benefit. Of course, this presumes that one is pursuing a business course, which I was (or any other course of study that the company is about).
I am just grateful that a good portion of my undergraduate degree was paid for via this, and the fact tuition prices were lower. This may shock some, but I lived in CA and my MBA only cost me $2K. Yes, I will admit I was born in the right time and in the right place. But then I had to move there to be in the right place. It's all about the choices we make.
I am really amazed that people think there will not be consequences from the student loan bubble. There have been tons of consequences form the housing bubble. I'm sure there will be from the student loan bubble. I'm from Vegas; I would love to move back home but people (not me, I've never bought a house I could not afford) bought homes that they could not afford and then when they depreciated, they bailed. So now my hometown has double digit unemployment, and tons of vacant properties. You are an idiot if you think that others decisions don't impact you.
A student with loans that are bonkers and of which have gotten worse because they cannot find work and cannot bankrupt them will ultimately be a drag on society--a huge one. They probably won't marry, shack up or have kids; they probably won't tithe to their church if they are religious; they work like dogs so they probably won't take care of their aging parents and they probably won't volunteer in the community. They won't go on vacations to Vegas or Disneyland; they won't ever watch their favorite sports team in person; they won't shop much outside of Wal-Mart; they probably won't get a mortgage and will subsist on used beat up cars. Because they will never progress to owning a home or a newer car, and because they don't shop Uncle Sam never gets really any taxes from them, and neither does their local community. In the end they also contribute to a declining birthrate because they didn't have kids.
Long term, I don't see anything good out of making college students debt slaves for life. And so long as those student loans are not eligible for bankruptcy protection, I don't ever see the bubble bursting. Colleges will charge more and more.
I can't help but wonder how many of these "I worked through college and have no debt" types actually went to college at any point in the last 10 years. In many cases, you can work all you want, and you can qualify for grants; but in the end you still need more money to go to school, and all that is left to you are loans.
I am really amazed that people think there will not be consequences from the student loan bubble. There have been tons of consequences form the housing bubble. I'm sure there will be from the student loan bubble. I'm from Vegas; I would love to move back home but people (not me, I've never bought a house I could not afford) bought homes that they could not afford and then when they depreciated, they bailed. So now my hometown has double digit unemployment, and tons of vacant properties. You are an idiot if you think that others decisions don't impact you.
A student with loans that are bonkers and of which have gotten worse because they cannot find work and cannot bankrupt them will ultimately be a drag on society--a huge one. They probably won't marry, shack up or have kids; they probably won't tithe to their church if they are religious; they work like dogs so they probably won't take care of their aging parents and they probably won't volunteer in the community. They won't go on vacations to Vegas or Disneyland; they won't ever watch their favorite sports team in person; they won't shop much outside of Wal-Mart; they probably won't get a mortgage and will subsist on used beat up cars. Because they will never progress to owning a home or a newer car, and because they don't shop Uncle Sam never gets really any taxes from them, and neither does their local community. In the end they also contribute to a declining birthrate because they didn't have kids.
Long term, I don't see anything good out of making college students debt slaves for life. And so long as those student loans are not eligible for bankruptcy protection, I don't ever see the bubble bursting. Colleges will charge more and more.
I can't help but wonder how many of these "I worked through college and have no debt" types actually went to college at any point in the last 10 years. In many cases, you can work all you want, and you can qualify for grants; but in the end you still need more money to go to school, and all that is left to you are loans.
Gee whiz, let's see how many of these categories I fall into, and because I've been responsible. First off, I bought a home I could afford that is paid for. I'm not married, I don't have kids, I belong to no church (although this is of my choosing). I have volunteered for the past five years but have not taken vacations. I don't shop unless I have to and chose not to have children unless I could support them MYSELF (btw, people who are not married without jobs have no business having children).
BTW, I do not go on vacations, I could not care less about sports. I am not quite sure what your point is here. People still need to be responsible for the choices they make, and that includes paying for college and choosing majors. And if they take out the debt, just like anyone else who has a credit card or mortgage, they are responsible for paying the debt. I did and I do.
Oh, and I went to college in the last ten years and owe zero.
I am really amazed that people think there will not be consequences from the student loan bubble.
What bubble? Students loans have been available forever. Zero down on a 500K mortgage someone couldn't afford while gainfully employed, not so much.
What are you thinking those consequences are going to be? Anything more than kids from here on out not being able to get a student loan without getting raked over the coals and given ONLY if an applicant majors in certain subjects?
That might not be such a bad thing.
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There have been tons of consequences form the housing bubble. I'm sure there will be from the student loan bubble. I'm from Vegas; I would love to move back home but people (not me, I've never bought a house I could not afford) bought homes that they could not afford and then when they depreciated, they bailed. So now my hometown has double digit unemployment, and tons of vacant properties. You are an idiot if you think that others decisions don't impact you.
Vegas doesn't have double digit unemployment and tons of vacant properties due to the housing bubble bursting, Vegas has double digit unemployment because the economy stinks and there are no jobs to be had so folks can't pay their mortgages (the ones they couldn't afford in the first place).
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A student with loans that are bonkers and of which have gotten worse because they cannot find work and cannot bankrupt them will ultimately be a drag on society--a huge one.
Same issue was going on in the early 90's. Didn't end up being a huge drag on society - and the cost of this/that and the other thing in the early 90's compared to 2011: it's all relative.
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They probably won't marry, shack up or have kids; they probably won't tithe to their church if they are religious; they work like dogs so they probably won't take care of their aging parents and they probably won't volunteer in the community. They won't go on vacations to Vegas or Disneyland; they won't ever watch their favorite sports team in person; they won't shop much outside of Wal-Mart; they probably won't get a mortgage and will subsist on used beat up cars. Because they will never progress to owning a home or a newer car, and because they don't shop Uncle Sam never gets really any taxes from them, and neither does their local community. In the end they also contribute to a declining birthrate because they didn't have kids.
Huh?
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Long term, I don't see anything good out of making college students debt slaves for life. And so long as those student loans are not eligible for bankruptcy protection, I don't ever see the bubble bursting. Colleges will charge more and more.
Colleges are going to charge more and more no matter what. Kids who took out loans need to pay them back. At the same time, remember this: (or are you not an economics major?) the economy cycles. It's a basic premise of Macro-Econ.
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I can't help but wonder how many of these "I worked through college and have no debt" types actually went to college at any point in the last 10 years. In many cases, you can work all you want, and you can qualify for grants; but in the end you still need more money to go to school, and all that is left to you are loans.
Then work before you go to college. Save up. Go to community for 2 years. Transfer grades. Who said college needs to be done in 4 years, from the ages of 18-22, if you can't afford it? And just because one gets into an Ivy, doesn't mean one has to go to said Ivy (which is funny because Princeton costs less to attend than some state schools - for out-of-state kids) and rack up the SL's while majoring in a subject that already has enough starving grads unable to pay their SL's?
I would suggest that they change their names and move to another country. Life is precious. Anyway, though, yes, that's a pity, but aren't there government programs, volunteer opportunities, merit pay, continued education credit, etc. that would help them get their debt under control? Aren't there programs that pay your student loans for you if you do a certain amount of service to the community once you receive your degree?
There are programs to erase "SOME" of your debt. For instance, I'll be a teacher with a masters degree with about 80k in debt. The federal govt. will erase 7k if I teach in a low income area. 7k on 80k debt is like.... interest? lol I'm still going to be paying at least 80k. While trying to get by on about 38k a year. So with my students loan payments, rent (buying is out of the question) and my car payment... I should be debt free in ohhh... right before retirement? There is something wrong when it costs this much just to be lower middle class... People need to realize that the rich are getting richer, and the poor and middle class are getting poorer. People need to stop electing people who only look after the safety and welfare of 2% of the country just because they control 90% of the money in America.... SOMETHING IS WRONG!!! WAKE UP... PURE CAPITALISM IS NOT WORKING!!!!
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Life is precious. Anyway, though, yes, that's a pity, but aren't there government programs, volunteer opportunities, merit pay, continued education credit, etc. that would help them get their debt under control? Aren't there programs that pay your student loans for you if you do a certain amount of service to the community once you receive your degree?
