Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The bible says that women should not "speak in church," that they should be controlled by their husbands, that they shall remain subservient. Women are second class citizens in Christianity and all of the other patriarchal religions. Men like this because not only is god a male, but the "holy book" says women are subservient and that men are better. Our entire culture is predicated on these ideas.
Most people do not "get" it at all - they don't see how having this as underlying ideology influences all of their beliefs and points-of-view and politics.
I totally understand what you are saying, and I agree to an extent. But you don't seem to fully understand why this is. You want to make it seem like it is simply that men want to control women. That men are somehow this evil oppressor who subjectify women probably because of religion itself.
The truth is, men have always been the dominant force in a society, because men in nature have been the provider for society. The differences between men and women are astounding. The typical mental characteristics and personality of a man are like exactly opposite of a woman. The two are not the same.
And while I'm not defending men outright, throughout history men have been in a much better position to get what they want out of a relationship. Because the woman would basically die without them. Her only option was to find another man to take care of her. And that really doesn't change anything. And this is why the institution of marriage was created.
This was an arrangement where the man promised to provide for the woman, on the condition that the woman would not leave him or sleep with other men. This was an attempt to guarantee to the man that the children that the woman bore were his children, and he was really providing for them.
The male/female relationship has always been about survival.
Things have changed recently, because the role of women has changed. They no longer have to rely on a man for survival. In a modern society, their roles are much more equal. She is no longer simply a baby-factory. If you understand anything about demographics and religion, you will understand that religions need adherants. And the easiest way to grow a religion is through high birthrates. So obviously religion has generally been opposed to things like gay-marriage and abortion. But not being because they are evil oppressors, it was about survival of their institution.
I don't think the men of the past intended to be evil. I don't believe they saw themselves as evil. There were many men who were very good to their wives, but also kept in place that male-dominant dynamic in the relationship. I know plenty of women now that are very dominating over their husband. So what? It doesn't change the fact that abortion isn't a simple matter of men trying to control women. Abortion is a delicate issue of humanity. Because that fetus would become your child, that fetus would call you momma, that fetus would give you hugs and love you, that fetus is not nothing. And to imply that a fetus is nothing, is to assert that we are all nothing.
Last edited by Redshadowz; 01-15-2011 at 09:16 PM..
Regarding gay marriage, we, Republicans, still have the crazy ideas that WE THE PEOPLE should make the calls on whether gay marriage, straight marriage, polygamy, etc.... would be legal.
"The people" don't get to make the calls on everything. That's why we elect representatives and have a judicial branch of government. If it hadn't been for the courts, segregation would have been the rule of law for a lot longer. Interracial marriages would have been illegal for years longer, if not decades. Courts have also overruled liberal ideas too. The point is that you don't get the final word on every law of the land.
I can only explain my own feelings on these issues, I don't speak for all but I think my answer is pretty representative of the conservative population. The simple fact is that gay marriage and abortion go against what God wants. I don't want gov't interfering in every realm of life, but I also do not want to pander to the viewpoints of a select few (in the case of gays) or the immoral (re: abortion). JMO
So you'd rather consider the viewpoints of ancient goat herders and a giant world-wide organization dedicated to behavior control than the viewpoints of actual individuals affected by the legislation?
That doesn't make sense to me, but to each their own (or not)
"The people" don't get to make the calls on everything. That's why we elect representatives and have a judicial branch of government. If it hadn't been for the courts, segregation would have been the rule of law for a lot longer. Interracial marriages would have been illegal for years longer, if not decades. Courts have also overruled liberal ideas too. The point is that you don't get the final word on every law of the land.
And it has never worked. We have activist judges and corrupt representatives. It's funny that a minority keep thinking they have power over a majority. the system is corrupt
Well, it may be true that, by and large, Republicans do believe we should be self-sufficient and that they are also anti-Big Government. But "tradtional family values" are also a huge plank in their platform. Thus, gay marriage and abortion both fly in the face of this mindset.
Too, a good percentage of Republicans are church-goers and thus subscribe to biblical laws and tenets, which are also diametrically opposed to gay marriage, and, at least in the view of the catholics, abortion.
An oft-quoted adage that also pretty much rings true is that Repubs tend to favor freedom for large corporations anf free enterprise, while Democrats and liberals rather favor freedom for individuals.
I think it's because of their really weird pseudo-religious values that they allegedly believe in. There's some objection to same-sex marriage here in Europe as well by conservatives but no way as strong as in the US. Luckily over here we don't have so many worked up religious zealots
Prop 8 passed in very blue CA. You don't get there with "pseudo-religious" zealots alone.
P.S. Isn't it ironic that the U.S. was formed to escape religious persecution but in the end it is the U.S. that is so twisted where religion is concerned?
Maybe all of the European"misfits" who immigrated to the U.S. really were not the cream of the crop, intellectually, anyway.
Prop 8 passed in very blue CA. You don't get there with "pseudo-religious" zealots alone.
Most Californians aren't liberals or Democrats.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
