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apologies for formulating that question a little facetiously! I think really with most of these things, how effective things are comes down to how much investment we want to put into things. Or at a more base level, how much we value them
Coming from a family of teachers and being trained as one myself, I couldn't hack it.
It's an extremely difficult job, made harder by parents not doing their job of educating their kids.
I think teachers are the worst paid professionals in the US.
Ignorance is so much more expensive than education.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chielgirl
Maybe because parents aren't doing their job by reinforcing school lessons.
You know, doing their part in raising their kids.
I see you had a bad educational experience or didn't like school.
My experience was the opposite.
See, we cancel each other out.
That's the problem with teachers and their union. We spend more per capita than virtually any other country on education yet are 37th in academic achievement. They aren't willing to accept any responsibility for this outcome. Any other profession with such poor results would face a complete overhaul.
One is parents. They just expect teachers to teach their kids and have nothing to do with their education. That is extremely prevalent.
The other is tenure. There are many teachers out there that are in it just for a paycheck. Once they hit tenure, they know it takes an act of God to fire them.
Teaching is an important profession, but I would like to see tenure done away with. Let it be like the private sector. Reward the good and get rid of the bad. Now if we could do that with parents we'd be in better shape as well.
apologies for formulating that question a little facetiously! I think really with most of these things, how effective things are comes down to how much investment we want to put into things. Or at a more base level, how much we value them
We spend more than virtually any other country on education and we have poor outcomes. It is time to recognize that more money isn't the answer. The system doesn't work and needs radical change.
Well of course in any particular scenario, investment is two-pronged 1) level of investment and 2) form/direction of investment, and as you say just throwing money at a problem isn't a solution in itself
But if we are to look at it this way, then I'm not so sure how teachers themselves are directly to blame, given that they can only work within a system that currently exists. If the problem is more structural or systematic then really we need to look higher up than teachers for the location of the problem
In response to this: The truth as I see it: 1. The average teacher salary is about 54,000 (Digest of Education Statistics, 2009 - Introduction) as of 2009 2. Students go to school 180 days, teachers work many days when students aren't there 3. Paid health benefits have been cut, retirement is most likely next (over all we do receive very good benefits in this area IMO) 4. Unions have improved our working conditions greatly (duty-free 30 minute lunches, not required to clean the classes, paid planning time, compensation for extra duties, due process) many of these are not unreasonable 5. Again many teachers leave for the private sector (see above) and don't return to this job. Why?
1. Need specifics regarding the $54000. Reasonable salary for a individual where I live but miserable in a higher cost of living area. This number is useless as cost of living changes the number and as a teacher you should know this prior to posting.
2. The actual response would be how many days does a teacher work? A teacher manages his/her classroom. I am a manager and paid a salary whether I work 30 to 60hours per week and that is as with the remainder of this country at 52weeks less vacation and holidays. A salary indicates a considerable level of responsiblity compared to a hourly wage person. A manager who complains of having too much work would be replaced.
3. It is a deep recession. We all do well in good times and have to sacrifice in difficult times as now. A guaranteed pension is a positive compared to 401K, similar market dependent investments or SS.
4. Unions are needed for tradespersons when management is poor. I agree that united representation is needed by any type of workforce but they also need to self-police and ruthlessly end their own abuses which inevitably occur. Also, a person should be given the option to opt-out of the union if they elect to do so.(No one would if the Union were seen as professional or a positive) The real world is hard in that lesser performers are terminated.
5. Let them leave as there are a pool of people willing to do the work. Free labor at its best. A person is not conscripted into teaching. An unhappy yet capable employee has a deleterious effect on the workplace compared to a motivated fresh intake.
I think all public positions should have a good living salary based on responsibilty with opportunity for merit based bonuses. The collective purchasing power of a larger organization should lead to improved health care benefits but these should not be free. A secure pension based on years and performance as well. There should also be considerable standards for continued employment and all lesser performing employees should be terminated.
Having written the above I also believe there needs to be a changes in the education system so that teachers are provided with an environment where they are able to teach. That is parents need to be made responsible for the conduct of their children. Corporal punishment needs to be instituted. Disruptive children need to be segregated from those who wish to learn and are able to conform to classroom discipline.
Well of course in any particular scenario, investment is two-pronged 1) level of investment and 2) form/direction of investment, and as you say just throwing money at a problem isn't a solution in itself
But if we are to look at it this way, then I'm not so sure how teachers themselves are directly to blame, given that they can only work within a system that currently exists. If the problem is more structural or systematic then really we need to look higher up than teachers for the location of the problem
Don't kid yourself the problem lies squarely with the teachers and their unions. They are satisfied with the status quo. They have no interest in school choice, ending tenure, merit pay or any other reform to the system.
Teachers cannot simply throw up their hands and say they have no control over outcomes. If that is the case we can simply do away with any teacher standards and allow anyone to teach.
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