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Thanx for posting.....many straight folks don't realize how much guts it takes to come out of the closet.....to friends, family, coworkers, etcetera as well as to society in general. Honesty is the best policy!
I think it's because they don't WANT to realize that family still disowns, that friends become distant or actively become non-friends, that coworkers and bosses discriminate. Either that or they agree with those former friends, family, coworkers, landlords or what have you. Makes me sick to think about how some people treat other people in this world.
Explain to the child how he came to this world and then tell them about a gay or lesbian couple.
The child most certainly did not come into the world as the result of a man sticking his tongue into a woman's mouth.
I doubt that a child would find any of the following acts any less repulsive regardless of who performed them upon who:
kissing
sexual intercourse
fellatio
cunnilingus
anal sex
[preemptive mod cut]
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If homosexuality is something people are born with, totally natural, etc. then how about other sexual "orientations/preferences" such as pedophilia, necrophilia, bestiality, etc.? Or are those "orientations/preferences" bad?
That same tired argument eh?
It's been posted ad nauseam on this forum so either you've missed it or have decided that you don't want to understand.
An adult can give consent. Whether that adult be straight, gay, bi, assexual, etc...
So "coming out" somehow satisfies a need to share with friends, co-workers, and society in general what you like to do behind closed doors?
How about just to let them know that their attempts at 'setting him up' with someone of the opposite sex is futile. I've been friends for several years with several gay men and lesbians. I still don't know "what they like to do behind closed doors" any more than they know what I like to do behind closed doors.
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Originally Posted by Workin_Hard
How is that relevant to your relationship with those same friends and co-workers, and do you seriously expect a positive response? Why is that something which needs to be so shared? If I prefer redheads, or tall girls, or fat/skinny chicks, or running around singing show tunes while wearing a thong, does telling others about it make me a better engineer or fireman or accountant? Does it help my relationship with society in general? And knowing that such revelations will almost certainly be taken in a bad light and make me the subject of derision, why would I be so pushed to say such things? Some things are better kept in one's personal life. Why this pathological need to "express one's self" or "be real" when the results are always negative? Sounds like an emotional problem on your part and maybe some counseling would help. Dressing like Carmen Miranda while riding a float down Main Street to show everyone who you feel like inside is not the answer and certainly not a rational basis for feeling proud.
Thing is, results of coming out are NOT 'always negative'. Nor should they be.
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Originally Posted by Workin_Hard
Tolerance is not the same as acceptance. You claim to seek the former while in truth are working only for the latter.
And, based on this post, I get the feeling you're one who won't even tolerate gays, much less accept the fact that someone is gay. You remind me of my mother-in-law who was so intolerant that it took her over thirty years to admit that she had a homosexual brother - and then only because I wanted to know who the boy in a childhood picture with my husband was. She had so closed off her mind to the fact of that brother, she didn't even know he had died 15 years before then!
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Originally Posted by Workin_Hard
All the liberal laws in the world will not change a normal human reaction to what normal people most view as sick behavior. You can't legislate emotions nor morality.
Maybe not, but you can teach tolerance to your children. You can teach your children to treat others the way they themselves want to be treated. And, BTW, this normal heterosexual person sees nothing 'sick' or 'wrong' about homosexuality.
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Originally Posted by Workin_Hard
And keep away from my kids as a teacher, fireman, policeman, or any other authority figure!
I get the feeling you're not as tolerant as you would like us to believe. Best teacher I ever had was a gay substitute math teacher. He was able to get me to understand equations in a way the regular teacher never could. Of course, at the time we didn't know he was gay. I found that out a few years later when his sister lived in the same apartment building I did. (In the '60s when I was in high school, admitting to being homosexual could very well have cost him his life!)
I laugh the same when people say I am afraid, phobic, hateful, etc. of gays simply because I don’t cheer for them. Sure, it is a nice way to pressure people to cheer for them and prevent from being labeled something or have fingers pointed at them. I have at least 2 gay friends, a lesbian, and a bi girl. I do not tremble when they are near me, I am not afraid, etc. Heck, a gay guy told me to my face that he thought I was cute. All this, and no hate from me.
Did I ever call you a homophobe? I have no idea how you come down on gay rights v. using the force of government to suppress gay people. If you support laws that deny equal rights to homosexuals, then yes, you are a fearful homophobe.
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Originally Posted by onihC
How about gays who even sue religious literature like the Christian bible simply because it talks about how homosexuality is a sin and goes against nature? How about those who sue a church?
Well, those gays would be idiots. However, it seems to me you're just making things up. I'm not familiar with any instance of a gay person suing the Bible. I'm not familiar with any gay person suing a church to try and take away that church's rights. Were a gay person to sue a church or religious person to stop their anti-gay hate speech, I would support free speech. Were a gay person to sue the Church and ask that Christians be banned from military service, I'd support the Church.
Case in point, I fully the Westboro Baptist Church's (the Fred Phelps clan) right to spew their anti-gay hate speech.
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Originally Posted by onihC
Like those gays who FEAR religion and actively discriminate against them and seek to have them face legal problems. Those are actions of a gay religious-phobic bigot. Let gays have their parades and what not and keep religious people out of there. Let religious groups have their thing and keep gays out. Live and let live.
Would you please give me some specific examples of gay, religious-phobic bigots using the courts to discriminate against Christians?
I've been to plenty of gay pride parades (I've even helped plan a few). I've never once seen a gay pride parade try and keep religious people out. As a matter of fact, if you ever decided to go to one you'll see the largest contingent of groups marching are religious congregations. Also, every gay parade I've been to attracts a large group of hatemongering, anti-gay religious protesters. They're absolutely welcome - nobody tries to keep them away (if you claim "us gays" do try to ban them, please direct me to a lawsuit seeking to do that).
Also, you're changing the debate. It's one thing to discriminate in your personal life - be it a Christian disowning his gay brother, or a gay disowning his Christian brother - but the debate is about institutional discrimination.
Homophobes are so fearful of homosexuals that they take their bigotry well beyond individual discrimination and institutionalize it. They use the force of government to pass laws making homosexuality illegal, ban gays from accessing certain legal rights, ban gays from military service, ban gays from being school teachers, pass laws allowing employers to fire people simply because they are gay, and on and on.
I've never known a religion-hating gay to take it to that level. I've never heard of a religion-hating gay propose a law to make Christianity illegal or ban Christians from entering into civil marriage contracts.
You say "live and let live". That's what gays want - even the religion hating gays (keep in mind most gay in the US identify as Christians). Anti-gay conservative religious types live by a different motto: "let us live, but use the force of law to repress those who disagree with our worldview."
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Originally Posted by onihC
If homosexuality is something people are born with, totally natural, etc. then how about other sexual "orientations/preferences" such as pedophilia, necrophilia, bestiality, etc.? Or are those "orientations/preferences" bad?
Yes, they are bad. Natural/normal or unnatural/abnormal is different from right/wrong, good/bad, moral/immoral, etc.
Homosexuality is both natural and normal - that's just a biological observational fact. If you want to deny that and call it unnatural and abnormal - good for you. Even if it is unnatural and abnormal it's still good, right, and moral way to exist.
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Originally Posted by onihC
If gays are all for accepting differences, celebrating diversity, being a loving happy family, respecting others, letting love rule, etc. then I suppose you guys would totally support a 50 year old woman parading and marching for her rights holding hands with her 13 year old boyfriend or a 50 year old man with her 13 year old girlfriend. Hhhhmm then children can be taught to accept those relationships as totally normal and acceptable. If someone doesn't accept and support that then those would also be considered full of hatred, close-minded, bigots, etc. "Adult/Children relationship-phobic"? A new expression can come out I am sure.
Ridiculous argument. Pedophilia harms the child. Beastiality harms the animal. My loving another man and him loving me back and the two of us making a life and family together doesn't harm me, him, you, my neighbors, society at large, etc. Homosexuality harms NOBODY. See the difference?
But sure, feel free to call me "Adult/Children relationship-phobic." I'm very fearful of the consequences of allowing adults to have sex with children.
Last edited by hammertime33; 03-10-2011 at 11:02 AM..
A persons sexual preference doesn't entitle them to special protections.
Actually in some states the law says it does, if you count not being fired, evicted from your home or singled out for abuse simply because of your sexual orientation.
So "coming out" somehow satisfies a need to share with friends, co-workers, and society in general what you like to do behind closed doors? How is that relevant to your relationship with those same friends and co-workers, and do you seriously expect a positive response? Why is that something which needs to be so shared?
Have you ever worked or had a friend? At every place I've worked, you tend to socialize a bit with you co-workers (even more so with friends). Generally, when building a relationship with another human being, it's common and helpful to be honest with them and share things about yourself.
I've been asked at least 100 times by co-workers (either at work, at a company social function, or over lunch at the burger joint down the street) questions like: "So David, are you married?" "Do you have a girlfriend?" "Man she's smoking - do you prefer blonds or brunettes?"
When asked by a co-worker "So, are you married" my response is "yes, I have a wonderful husband. His name is Ron. We've been together 13 years. I have a picture in my wallet. Would you like to see it?" What would you have me do - lie? Avoid answering the question and come across as cold and anti-social?
That's called "coming out." It's something that happens when you interact with other human beings, and in terms of building an honest relationship with someone, is very relevant.
Last edited by hammertime33; 03-10-2011 at 11:03 AM..
The child most certainly did not come into the world as the result of a man sticking his tongue into a woman's mouth.
The child did not come to this world with a man/man or woman/woman couple. Life exists in this world thanks to a male/female, a sperm and an egg, a plug for the socket. Not a socket for the socket and a plug for the plug. Heck, even same polarities repel each other.
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That same tired argument eh?
You guys bring your own too. So let’s carry on…
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An adult can give consent. Whether that adult be straight, gay, bi, assexual, etc...A child cannot give consent.
But guess what, a law can be REDEFINED and changed just like gays have done up to today when it comes to unions, laws, rights, and so on. If they can do it, why not other so called preferences/orientations? Back in the day a gay could say “I want to get rights and privileges to marry another man/woman (gay couples)” and the answer that person got was that it was illegal and now look at the situation? Gays have advanced quite a bit. They have paved the way for other preferences/orientations. You say “a child cannot give consent…its illegal…” why not let those loving couples also march for their rights to have laws, rules, rights, unions, etc. also REDEFINED? Besides, you guys talk about celebrating diversity, respecting differences, accepting others preferences/orientations, etc., right?
If you support laws that deny equal rights to homosexuals, then yes, you are a fearful homophobe
Name calling from a gay guy, doesn’t surprise me. I am not afraid of you. I would gladly debate this with a cup of coffee on the same couch if you want. I don’t see how the word “phobia” would fit in here. Maybe you are afraid/terrorized from those who oppose to you and don’t cheer for you?
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Well, those gays would be idiots. However, it seems to me you're just making things up
Case in point, I fully the Westboro Baptist Church's (the Fred Phelps clan) right to spew their anti-gay hate speech
For a church to preach that homosexuality is a sin, goes against nature, etc. it’s hate? How about hate for gays to sue churches for not cheering for them? Live and let live. If religions around the world won’t cheer for you then make your own religion. How about joining the Satanic church? They have said they totally support gays and other preferences/orientations out there. Makes more sense than trying to change a religion, sue them, redefine that religion, etc. It’s like a steak-loving person going to a vegetarian organization and trying to make them eat stake. Gays talk about respecting differences and all, well, respect religious organizations and stay away if you can’t take it. Respect goes both ways, not just to gays as they make it seem.
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You say "live and let live". That's what gays want
But that is what they don’t show. Forcing a guy in the military to accept him and be totally cool about him sharing the same showers, restrooms, barracks, etc.? that is a total disrespect of privacy. I know I know “but they will not rape another man just because they are gay…they won’t be staring necessarily in the showers at other men…you are just afraid…” ok ok ok, using that same gay line how about having a guy around women in their showers, restrooms, barracks, etc.? Doesn’t mean that he will run like a maniac and rape all women in there. He can be respectful and mind his own business. If women don’t accept men around them does it make them men-phobic or hateful?
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Homosexuality is both natural and normal - that's just a biological observational fact
Just like other so called sexual preferences/orientations, right?
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But sure, feel free to call me "Adult/Children relationship-phobic." I'm very fearful of the consequences of allowing adults to have sex with children.
A teenager is not a child. It’s more harmful for a gay to have sex with another one considering how gays have always had the highest percentage of AIDS. Now that is harmful not only for a man but for children too. Do the math. Gays have the highest percentage of AIDS, they pass it to bi guys, and it goes on and on. Sure, AIDS is not a “gay disease” but it is dominant among gay men. Remember the bird flu in Asia? We can’t really say back then that the bird flu was “an Asian disease”, nope, but it was predominant among Asians and since Asians come and go and are the predominant race in the world they would come and go and spread it around. I think you get the idea.
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