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...But it seems to me a free society is not ultimately sustainable, probably due to human nature itself.
First off, a brief lesson on the true nature of humankind. Humans are barely evolved over our other ape kin. We are still playing a game of dominant vs submissive ape, though it's a bit more complicated than the chimps and gorillas these days. We are subject to the laws of nature, just as any other creature on this planet. If you want to understand human society and dynamics, you MUST understand this fundamental concept. No magic, no god given rights, no higher understanding directing the flow of humanity. It's all nature, and "magic thinking" only keeps the masses in the dark. WE ARE ANIMALS. Accept it.
Those in power know this...they also know people prefer "magic thinking" over logical thinking and use that to their advantage over us, and just enough inexplicable (not magic, inexplicable) stuff happens to keep the flames of magic thinking smoldering.
Anyway, back to freedom... The earlier generations of America felt the burning need to be free; they accomplished it and build an an insanely comfortable and wealthy society over several generations, far beyond anything that has ever been accomplished in history.
But with "easy living" comes lazyness, entitlement and the demand for ever-increasing comfort. Naturally, we desire and seek out the "easy life", and fail to understand that as we accept and adopt more dependant lifestyles, we gradually surrender our freedom in exchange for "easy life".
It's the same thing that happens with zoo animals. A wild caught animal thrown into a zoo goes crazy! They won't eat, they will injure themselves, try to escape and more often than not die well before their time. A captive born bred animal accepts captivity, however, and over time, subsequent generations will be even more docile. Given long enough, human control over breeding creates domestic animals. Now cows will walk up a ramp into the slaughterhouse with minimal disruption (Imagine what would of happened if we tried to do it with wild aurochs); chickens will sit in cages not even big enough to move in, their natural sense of freedom bred out of them.
The same thing is happening with humans today. Our desire for freedom is being "bred out" of us. We naturally embrace comfort and gladly sacrifice our indviduality in exchange. A sustainable free society cannot result from this kind of dynamic. Therfore our society is ultimately doomed. It's nature in action.
...But it seems to me a free society is not ultimately sustainable, probably due to human nature itself.
First off, a brief lesson on the true nature of humankind. Humans are barely evolved over our other ape kin. We are still playing a game of dominant vs submissive ape, though it's a bit more complicated than the chimps and gorillas these days. We are subject to the laws of nature, just as any other creature on this planet. If you want to understand human society and dynamics, you MUST understand this fundamental concept. No magic, no god given rights, no higher understanding directing the flow of humanity. It's all nature, and "magic thinking" only keeps the masses in the dark. WE ARE ANIMALS. Accept it.
Those in power know this...they also know people prefer "magic thinking" over logical thinking and use that to their advantage over us, and just enough inexplicable (not magic, inexplicable) stuff happens to keep the flames of magic thinking smoldering.
Anyway, back to freedom... The earlier generations of America felt the burning need to be free; they accomplished it and build an an insanely comfortable and wealthy society over several generations, far beyond anything that has ever been accomplished in history.
But with "easy living" comes lazyness, entitlement and the demand for ever-increasing comfort. Naturally, we desire and seek out the "easy life", and fail to understand that as we accept and adopt more dependant lifestyles, we gradually surrender our freedom in exchange for "easy life".
It's the same thing that happens with zoo animals. A wild caught animal thrown into a zoo goes crazy! They won't eat, they will injure themselves, try to escape and more often than not die well before their time. A captive born bred animal accepts captivity, however, and over time, subsequent generations will be even more docile. Given long enough, human control over breeding creates domestic animals. Now cows will walk up a ramp into the slaughterhouse with minimal disruption (Imagine what would of happened if we tried to do it with wild aurochs); chickens will sit in cages not even big enough to move in, their natural sense of freedom bred out of them.
The same thing is happening with humans today. Our desire for freedom is being "bred out" of us. We naturally embrace comfort and gladly sacrifice our indviduality in exchange. A sustainable free society cannot result from this kind of dynamic. Therfore our society is ultimately doomed. It's nature in action.
That's exactly what entitlement programs do. We have survived for millenia without the need for Medicare or Social Security, yet the liberals on here find it somehow impossible to live without government programs. The only way to get rid of entitlements, is to just print money like mad and implode the economy, and tell the liberals see? I told you so. Then you can blame the liberals for their excesses
Free society work but not without laws! Capitalism without failure is like religion without sin! The banks and mortgage industry were deregulated and look what happened!
Free society work but not without laws! Capitalism without failure is like religion without sin! The banks and mortgage industry were deregulated and look what happened!
Exactly, free society can work but we need some form of government. We can't have anarchy.
...But it seems to me a free society is not ultimately sustainable, probably due to human nature itself.
First off, a brief lesson on the true nature of humankind. Humans are barely evolved over our other ape kin. We are still playing a game of dominant vs submissive ape, though it's a bit more complicated than the chimps and gorillas these days. We are subject to the laws of nature, just as any other creature on this planet. If you want to understand human society and dynamics, you MUST understand this fundamental concept. No magic, no god given rights, no higher understanding directing the flow of humanity. It's all nature, and "magic thinking" only keeps the masses in the dark. WE ARE ANIMALS. Accept it.
Those in power know this...they also know people prefer "magic thinking" over logical thinking and use that to their advantage over us, and just enough inexplicable (not magic, inexplicable) stuff happens to keep the flames of magic thinking smoldering.
Anyway, back to freedom... The earlier generations of America felt the burning need to be free; they accomplished it and build an an insanely comfortable and wealthy society over several generations, far beyond anything that has ever been accomplished in history.
But with "easy living" comes lazyness, entitlement and the demand for ever-increasing comfort. Naturally, we desire and seek out the "easy life", and fail to understand that as we accept and adopt more dependant lifestyles, we gradually surrender our freedom in exchange for "easy life".
It's the same thing that happens with zoo animals. A wild caught animal thrown into a zoo goes crazy! They won't eat, they will injure themselves, try to escape and more often than not die well before their time. A captive born bred animal accepts captivity, however, and over time, subsequent generations will be even more docile. Given long enough, human control over breeding creates domestic animals. Now cows will walk up a ramp into the slaughterhouse with minimal disruption (Imagine what would of happened if we tried to do it with wild aurochs); chickens will sit in cages not even big enough to move in, their natural sense of freedom bred out of them.
The same thing is happening with humans today. Our desire for freedom is being "bred out" of us. We naturally embrace comfort and gladly sacrifice our indviduality in exchange. A sustainable free society cannot result from this kind of dynamic. Therfore our society is ultimately doomed. It's nature in action.
Completely faulty premise.
We are a completely free society. We are free to do as we please. We are free to work or not work. We are free to work hard or hardly at all.
It's your choice. You are free to sit in a room and stair at a wall.
But if you choose not to work then please don't ask society to take care of you. Don't put your hand out and say feed me, cloth me, give me shelter.
Free society work but not without laws! Capitalism without failure is like religion without sin! The banks and mortgage industry were deregulated and look what happened!
The government was forcing banks to lend money to people who couldn't afford to pay back.
Completely faulty premise.
We are a completely free society. We are free to do as we please. We are free to work or not work. We are free to work hard or hardly at all.
It's your choice. You are free to sit in a room and stair at a wall.
But if you choose not to work then please don't ask society to take care of you. Don't put your hand out and say feed me, cloth me, give me shelter.
Contesting a "faulty premise" with a real faulty premise.
We are NOT free to do as we please. If I was a nudist and decided to go for a walk in the park I would end up in jail, even though my act would be nothing more than just walking as a natural human does.
If I chose to quit work and stare at my wall I could, for a time. But soon enough my wall would be forclosed on. If I owned my wall outright, the government would take it for not paying taxes.
I do agree. The problem the government has is: it is damned if they do, damned if they don't. When things are going well, people say "why are we funding this?" If something happens, people say "Why isn't the government doing something about this?" You hear many politicians nowadays talking about how we have laws that were important when we implemented them, but are pointless now. Do people really think things can't go back to the way they used to be?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirdik
The government was forcing banks to lend money to people who couldn't afford to pay back.
I love this line. I worked for a bank during the housing boom. There was no forcing going on whatsoever. Whenever the government deregulated the industry, people celebrated. I heard tearful speeches about how the banks were working with the legislature to get more Americans than ever into a home (thus a mortgage). In the business world right now, almost no one looks at long term investments. We live in the era of get-rich-quick wall street kids who want to retire by the time they are 30. The mortgages companies were eating it up. Just like so many Americans are eating up this fabrication that the banks made bad mortgages because the government forced them to do it. Smart banks. Now they don't have to be held accountable for their actions. Because if you want it to be true than it must be.
Contesting a "faulty premise" with a real faulty premise.
We are NOT free to do as we please. If I was a nudist and decided to go for a walk in the park I would end up in jail, even though my act would be nothing more than just walking as a natural human does.
If I chose to quit work and stare at my wall I could, for a time. But soon enough my wall would be forclosed on. If I owned my wall outright, the government would take it for not paying taxes.
Good grief. Where did I say you were free to go nude? If you want to go nude in your own home then feel free, but please spare the rest of us in polite society.
Of course you have to navigate your life within the rules that we as a society have set up. And for your own info it is really best for you not to go around nude, it is a sanitation thing.
And if you actually owned your wall (home) and the bank didn't own it then you could stay. But evidently you have a mortgage so you don't own it the bank does so yes if you didn't honor your promise to the bank then you would lose it. Seems fair.
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