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People need to learn how our system works. If we don't have debt we won't have currency.
If we directly issue debt free currency we can pay off the debt, it won't make the bankers happy though.
One only need to ask President Lincoln, or President Kennedy how unhappy such ideas make the bankers.
Lincoln's greenback was the reason he was shot in the head. Kennedy's plans to do away with the Federal Reserve and issue government currency, like Lincoln, got him shot in the head too. Of course, both shooters were lone gunman, and neither made it to trial, coincidentally.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hilgi
It is nice to see more people are waking up to this fact.
Here is my slogan.
"Most people treat politics like pep rallies and defend their team like it was high school football. When in reality the politicians are nothing more than the equivalent of pro wrestlers, they fight all day and go out for drinks together at night."
I came to these conclusions a long, long time ago ... long before the internet and the available resources we have today.
If anyone thinks these are modern realities just now becoming known, they need to read the book ... "War is a Racket" by Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler .... I think it was published in the 1920's or 30's.
Personally, I don't think anyone is waking up. I think that the more information presented to some people, the more they dig their heals in. We have two kinds of people in this country .... independent thinkers, and people who can't be bothered to think at all, and are all too willing to let someone else do the thinking for them.
You'll know them by their motto ..... "Conspiracy Theory" ! As soon as you hear someone engage that tactic, you automatically know that the person is a non-thinker.
Here's my motto ... "You can lead a fool to information, but you can't make them think".
At this point,. it's easier to declare bankruptcy (again) because no one dares to touch the golden geese in government: the defense budget AND entitlements. You'd need to reduce the size of the federal government upwards of 50% to make an impact.
Military spending is not defense. I just don't see have military base all over the world make me safe. I would feel safer if those military personnel is home defensing the borders
One only need to ask President Lincoln, or President Kennedy how unhappy such ideas make the bankers.
Lincoln's greenback was the reason he was shot in the head. Kennedy's plans to do away with the Federal Reserve and issue government currency, like Lincoln, got him shot in the head too. Of course, both shooters were lone gunman, and neither made it to trial, coincidentally.
I do agree about Lincoln, the Kennedy and his executive order is covered in the forum here. Welcome to the Secret of Oz I would say Garfield is a good candidate for being killed due to his banking views.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas
I came to these conclusions a long, long time ago ... long before the internet and the available resources we have today.
If anyone thinks these are modern realities just now becoming known, they need to read the book ... "War is a Racket" by Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler .... I think it was published in the 1920's or 30's.
Personally, I don't think anyone is waking up. I think that the more information presented to some people, the more they dig their heals in. We have two kinds of people in this country .... independent thinkers, and people who can't be bothered to think at all, and are all too willing to let someone else do the thinking for them.
You'll know them by their motto ..... "Conspiracy Theory" ! As soon as you hear someone engage that tactic, you automatically know that the person is a non-thinker.
Here's my motto ... "You can lead a fool to information, but you can't make them think".
It is all about presentation. Most people are concrete communicators, most of us are rational metaphorical communicators. Learn to speak their language and you will do a lot better. Here is a vid we did years about about this topic. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=056C4wM9niQ
Here's the PROBLEM...
Fact #1: Congress has no power to create money.
Fact #2: Usury is mathematically impossible to pay in a finite money token system.
Do not believe me - go read the USCON. Congress has the power to COIN money (stamp bullion) or BORROW money. If Congress had the power to create money, why would it need the power to borrow it?
Usury is mathematically impossible to pay in a finite money token system (like America's), so any interest bearing public debt was based on an impossible agreement from day one.
Even lawyers know that usury is unsustainable!
In 1836 John Whipple, an American lawyer, showed the impossibility of sustaining long term metallic usury:
" If 5 English pennies... had been... at 5 per cent compound interest from the beginning of the Christian era until the present time, it would amount in gold of standard fineness to 32,366,648,157 spheres of gold each eight thousand miles in diameter, or as large as the earth."
In other words, NO SYSTEM that tolerates usury can do anything but boom AND bust. Because there is never enough money tokens for all debtors to pay their creditors. A proportion shall default and lose valuable property pledged as collateral. Unsecured investors will be ruined.
Based upon these facts, I can conclude that the public debt can not be repaid. There is not enough gold to coin, to pay the debt pursuant to the USCON.
And yet all we hear are clamors to "audit the FED"! That's about as useful as counting spots on the leopard that's about to eat you.
Another victory for the world's greatest propaganda ministry!
-------------------------------------------------------------
Money reference: Yahoo! Groups
Usury tidbits: Yahoo! Groups
Everyone wants to talk about cutting the defense budget. How about we just cut out the defense of other nations and take care of ourselves for a change? That is sure to save a lot of $$. Foreign aid would be a great place to start the cuts...
"Foreign aid" is a miniscule amount of money in the overall budget, and a lot of it is actually tied to weapons acquisitions (eg, we extend "aid" in the form of money that can only be used on American-made weapons systems). Which means you'll have powerful corporate opposition to cutting anything like that.
for our govt to do that is just blatantly dishonest. second that has serious implications for the dollar and your std of living. inflation also encourages debt and discourages savings esp if you have interest rates set by a central body.
Inflation is the ultimate means through which redistribution of wealth occurs. Obama doesn't need Congress to raise taxes as long as the printing presses at the FED are running.
if you look at that 14+ trillion, just remember that is the funded part.
if you look at the unfunded part, that number is now over 113,000,000,000,000, or 113 trillion to those that do not want to count all those zeros. the USA will never settle its national debt without defaulting on the whole thing.
Here's the PROBLEM...
Fact #1: Congress has no power to create money.
Fact #2: Usury is mathematically impossible to pay in a finite money token system.
Do not believe me - go read the USCON. Congress has the power to COIN money (stamp bullion) or BORROW money. If Congress had the power to create money, why would it need the power to borrow it?
Usury is mathematically impossible to pay in a finite money token system (like America's), so any interest bearing public debt was based on an impossible agreement from day one.
Even lawyers know that usury is unsustainable!
In 1836 John Whipple, an American lawyer, showed the impossibility of sustaining long term metallic usury:
" If 5 English pennies... had been... at 5 per cent compound interest from the beginning of the Christian era until the present time, it would amount in gold of standard fineness to 32,366,648,157 spheres of gold each eight thousand miles in diameter, or as large as the earth."
In other words, NO SYSTEM that tolerates usury can do anything but boom AND bust. Because there is never enough money tokens for all debtors to pay their creditors. A proportion shall default and lose valuable property pledged as collateral. Unsecured investors will be ruined.
Based upon these facts, I can conclude that the public debt can not be repaid. There is not enough gold to coin, to pay the debt pursuant to the USCON.
And yet all we hear are clamors to "audit the FED"! That's about as useful as counting spots on the leopard that's about to eat you.
Another victory for the world's greatest propaganda ministry!
-------------------------------------------------------------
Money reference: Yahoo! Groups
Usury tidbits: Yahoo! Groups
The FED is an illegal counterfeiting operation .. it should not be audited .. it should be seized and it's assets confiscated, and returned to the US Treasury where such monies belong. Those backers of the FED, should be tried and convicted of their crimes, with damages assessed, and payment due in gold. Don't pay? We will come and take it ... we have the military might to do so.
As for usury, I'm not a fan of usury ... but usury itself doesn't preclude the repayment of debt generated by usury. The actual usury that should not be allowed is the usury associated with the initial creation or expansion of the currency. And the amount of Gold in possession of the United States currently may make a gold standard difficult to restore, but it was the acceptance of fiat currency that allowed the bankster criminals to issue funny money and ride off into the sunset with our gold in the first place. Check the coffers of the Rothschild criminal cabal, and you find all of the missing gold ... some estimates are that they hold upwards of 200-300 Trillion ... probably about 50 Trillion of it was stolen from us. Take it back, and there would be no problem restoring the gold standard.
When you have a gold standard, that prohibits the issuance of currency that you don't have gold to support. As you increase production in the economy, export surpluses will bring new wealth (gold) into the economy, allowing the expansion of the money supply to correspond with that increase. That is why you must not allow trade deficits, as it is a net drain on your wealth. Usury interest in the general economy would have to come from the influx of added wealth from production and export surpluses, and the expansion of the money supply would have to factor in interest rates accordingly. Otherwise, without interest incentives, currency would be hoarded and slowly taken out of circulation, bringing the economy to a halt.
So, you need interest free issuance of currency by the government, pegged to an asset of tangible value, with modest interest fees allowed within the general economy for investment, stimulating a circulation of currency that avoids hoarding, plus a trade balance or surplus, and no trade deficits.
The FED is an illegal counterfeiting operation .. it should not be audited .. it should be seized and it's assets confiscated, and returned to the US Treasury where such monies belong. Those backers of the FED, should be tried and convicted of their crimes, with damages assessed, and payment due in gold. Don't pay? We will come and take it ... we have the military might to do so.
As for usury, I'm not a fan of usury ... but usury itself doesn't preclude the repayment of debt generated by usury. The actual usury that should not be allowed is the usury associated with the initial creation or expansion of the currency. And the amount of Gold in possession of the United States currently may make a gold standard difficult to restore, but it was the acceptance of fiat currency that allowed the bankster criminals to issue funny money and ride off into the sunset with our gold in the first place. Check the coffers of the Rothschild criminal cabal, and you find all of the missing gold ... some estimates are that they hold upwards of 200-300 Trillion ... probably about 50 Trillion of it was stolen from us. Take it back, and there would be no problem restoring the gold standard.
When you have a gold standard, that prohibits the issuance of currency that you don't have gold to support. As you increase production in the economy, export surpluses will bring new wealth (gold) into the economy, allowing the expansion of the money supply to correspond with that increase. That is why you must not allow trade deficits, as it is a net drain on your wealth. Usury interest in the general economy would have to come from the influx of added wealth from production and export surpluses, and the expansion of the money supply would have to factor in interest rates accordingly. Otherwise, without interest incentives, currency would be hoarded and slowly taken out of circulation, bringing the economy to a halt.
So, you need interest free issuance of currency by the government, pegged to an asset of tangible value, with modest interest fees allowed within the general economy for investment, stimulating a circulation of currency that avoids hoarding, plus a trade balance or surplus, and no trade deficits.
The aggregate debt created by usury IS impossible for ALL DEBTORS to repay. That's a fact. No usury is tolerable in a finite money token system. It is a SCAM to rob, and been denounced as such for over 3500 years. (and a capital offense, saith Ezekiel 18:13 KJV)
"14 trillion dollars" (in law) = 700 billion ounces of gold stamped into coin
World wide supply = 5.3 billion ounces (2007 est)
6.7 billion world population
Do the math.
You can't repay a debt denominated in gold dollars (silver was demonetized in 1873). You can't have "gold backed" currency with less than one ounce per capita. Furthermore, a static money supply versus a dynamic marketplace = chaos.
Money madness doth infect mankind.
Money Madness : Ozmirage, Emerald City of Dreams (http://www.ozmirage.org/anic/tiki-index.php?page=Money%20Madness - broken link)
In short, "they" have us by the shorts.
We can't go back to "hard money".
We can't continue with debt-credit notes.
We can't allow parasitical entities (governments or banks) to issue or control the medium of exchange that is necessary to account for the goods and services created by the productive people and enterprises.
Last edited by jetgraphics; 03-28-2011 at 03:55 AM..
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